My Super 650 Dillon Build

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GlennSFX
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:17 am

Brass ready to be removed from the tumbler. Ran for a little over two hours.

Paper towel kept dust at bay...
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Shiny brass poking through...
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Separated brass and media. Dryer sheets definitely help control dust...
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Brass separated and looking good...
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Weapon
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by Weapon » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:37 am

GlennSFX wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:44 pm
Weapon wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:52 pm
When it comes to case mouth flaring and coated bullets, I bell them out slightly more than usual for any other type of bullet. It works the brass a little more but 9mm brass is cheap (even though that habit started with .45acp coated bullets) and it helps to avoid sheering off a bit of the coating if the bullet is slightly off center when it enters the die. You can get by with less flaring if you slow down a little but that runs counter to my morning caffeine intake. :)

My 650 has cranked out ammo since the 90s and is still going strong despite being moved back and forth across the state — Dillon makes some impressive machines. Anything that can put up with my nonsense for 20+ years is well made. :)
They certainly make a nice piece of equipment!

I just swapped out the Dillon bullet seating die for the Lee. I really like the fine adjustment on the Lee.
Question...how often do you clean your dies?

I got the powder drop set to 3.1g. Pretty consistent. Got a couple 3.0 but it was right on the edge, remeasure on the scale and sometimes it would read 3.1. Powder check is nice, and with the camera visual, it's pretty foolproof eliminating any squibs.

I ran 15 through the press and will give them a try tomorrow.
I wet tumble almost most all of my brass with stainless steel pins so I don’t have to clean my dies very often other than a separate universal depriming die that I have. When they start to look nasty, a good blast of Hornady one shot followed by a rag usually does the trick.
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ncjw
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by ncjw » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:47 pm

This is the problem with this dang forum. I read about someone with a new toy and I get the urge to go and play with my old toy. But then I see the shelves groaning with all of the ammo that I bought on sales recommended on this forum and I go back to watching TV and waiting for warmer weather to go shooting.

Dang forum...
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LT USN (Ret.)
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:53 pm

ncjw wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:47 pm
Dang forum...
:d
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GlennSFX
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:31 pm

Ran my first "Production Run" on the Dillon last week and loaded 233 rounds in 1 hour. I was setup to run 147g ACME bullets with 3.0g Titegroup, CCI primers and COAL of 1.125". I wasn't trying to break any records, I wanted to be as consistent as I could be working the press. I took 5 powder samples, 4 measured 3.0 and one was 3.1. Randomly checked the COAL and they ranged from 1.120" to 1.129". I've found that with the progressive press, the force applied to the stroke, and consistency, seems to have some bearing on the COAL. At least during my testing it did.

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I was waiting to shoot them until the light kit for the chrono showed up. I tried making one myself, but it didn't work out..I'll admit, I FAILED! :oops: It was worth the $45 to have a light that was designed for it, and be able to use it indoors, especially this time of the year. I've only been able to use it once outdoors, and that was almost a disaster.

I shot 10 rounds off just to get a feel for them and make sure they went bang...no issues. Next I shot 5 rounds at 10 yards off the range bag for accuracy. All were in the 2" black circle of my RMR Zero Target. My phone was dead and couldn't take a picture. I have the target and will edit in a photo later.

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Shot 20 rounds through the chrono and recorded each velocity reading. I decided to enter the data into Excel and do some statistical analysis on it.

Data Summary...
Average Velocity: 904.7 ft/sec
Average PF: 132.991
Velocity Variation: 3.427%
Standard Deviation: 9.333

When looking at the data I was thinking of what variables are in play with the rounds themselves...
  • 1. COAL
There is some variation in the COAL which will affect the pressure. A longer COAL with the same powder charge will result in a lower velocity. The opposite is true for a shorter COAL.
  • 2. Powder Charge Drop
Obviously the amount of power in the casing with affect the velocity. The Dillon is very consistent, typically within 1g. Of course that is also a function of the accuracy of the scale which is 1g.
  • 3. Powder Combustibility per grain
Here the volatility of the powder itself factors in. Does every "flake/ball" produce the same amount of energy. I have video where one fired round produces more muzzle flash than another.
  • 4. Bullet weight.
Subject to the tolerance the manufacture has on their production processes.
  • 5. Bullet diameter.
Subject to the tolerance the manufacture has on their production processes.
  • 6. Primer detonation.
Like the powder...does every primer exhibit the same ignition of the gun powder itself.

:!: Also there is the accuracy of the chrono itself. It is speced at +/- 1% of measured velocity.

So with that said...here's the data in the Excel file...

The main thing I was looking for, was if the data was within acceptable Standard Deviation Standards. I figured this would give me some idea if the spread I was seeing was acceptable and/or normal.

An acceptable "1 SD" should contain 68% of the data set, "2 SD" should contain 98%, and "3 SD" 99%.
My data was showing 65% in 1 SD and 100% of the data in 2 SD. Looks to be acceptable. But at the end of the day, what I'm most concerned with is...will I pass a chrono test at a USPSA match! My match in 3 weeks in NC is a sectional championship, so I'm sure our ammo will be tested. I am planning on shooting my own reloads for the match. This is my first major match so it will be an experience.

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Right now I'm planning to run another 50 rounds with 2.9g of powder, and 50 with 2.8g to see what the data looks like. With the current average PF of 133 and a low of 130.7, there is some wiggle room to move closer to the 125 minimum. Right now with the 3.0g loads and 1.125" COAL, the accuracy is there. So I'll be sure to check the PF and accuracy of these lower PF loads.
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:41 pm

Excel spreadsheets! You made my day :YMHUG:

I did have to look up COAL seeing as I am not a reloaded (yet).
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ncjw
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by ncjw » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:51 pm

LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:41 pm
Excel spreadsheets! You made my day :YMHUG:

I did have to look up COAL seeing as I am not a reloaded (yet).
What you do is to grind up some coal really fine and add a drop of water to the case and when the primer goes off it causes this little steam engine effect to happen and the bullet goes down the barrel...
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:15 am

Loaded up 50 rounds at 2.8g of Titegroup and it looks like it's too close to the min PF limit of 125. Data spread was a little wider with the lighter load than the 3.0g rounds. Going to load up 50 at 2.9 and give those a go. Based on the two test, that's probably where I'll stay.

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My daughter is up from NC and joined me at the range...she can shoot!!! :-D
She's a Glock Girl, but can shoot most guns well.

10 yds with the Combat...

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GlennSFX
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:42 am

Ran my second "production run" last night. Processed 700 rounds in 2 hours and 13 minutes. I was just running at a nice steady pace, not trying to set any records. Only issue I experienced was two shells came in upside down. Took just over an hour to case gauge each round, all passed. I have an IDPA match Sat and a USPSA on Sun. Will be running this ammo. So far I haven't had any issues.

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Texas1911
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by Texas1911 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:56 am

I purchased my second 650 last year. Now I have one set up for small primers and one for large. What it really means is one set up for .45 ACP and one for 9mm.

A couple of nice enhancements are linked below.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Original-D ... SwNSxU3qak Ski Jump fix
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEWEST-spent-P ... 87578fd8a3 Better spent primer system
https://entirelycrimson.com/collections ... er-alarm-1 Powder measure quick release
https://www.titanreloading.com/titan-re ... -small-bar Awesome dial system for powder bar

Also a bullet tray makes live MUCH easier!
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GlennSFX
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:18 am

Texas1911 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:56 am
I purchased my second 650 last year. Now I have one set up for small primers and one for large. What it really means is one set up for .45 ACP and one for 9mm.

A couple of nice enhancements are linked below.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Original-D ... SwNSxU3qak Ski Jump fix
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEWEST-spent-P ... 87578fd8a3 Better spent primer system
https://entirelycrimson.com/collections ... er-alarm-1 Powder measure quick release
https://www.titanreloading.com/titan-re ... -small-bar Awesome dial system for powder bar

Also a bullet tray makes live MUCH easier!
Thanks for the links!

I ordered the Ski Jump fix. I don't have many new primers pass through as I have the mod where I can turn the primer feed on and off which works GREAT!

I would have ordered the used primer upgrade, but I don't use a stand. I only have a few that make their way to the floor, so it's really not a big deal.
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by Texas1911 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:01 pm

You're welcome.
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Raffaele-Italy
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by Raffaele-Italy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:11 pm

A very good choice I have been using for three years never had major problems and the Dillon - with the fantastic Steeve Chavez - intervenes immediately even if I write from Italy
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:08 pm

After finishing up my 147g Flat Nose from Acme, I decided to try their 145g RN. Ordered 2500 and loaded up a couple hundred to try. The Hodgdon loading data had the COL at 1.15", I went with 1.14". Got to the range this morning to get some velocity readings to see how they were performing. Here's the results for 20 rounds...

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Ballistics look pretty flat from 10 yds to 40 yds using my average velocity reading.

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Accuracy was good. I think I'm going to run a hundred at 2.9g and 3.0g and see what the numbers look like.
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:54 pm

It's all Turkish to me... How's the drop rate change is fired out of a carbine?
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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:42 pm

LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:54 pm
It's all Turkish to me... How's the drop rate change is fired out of a carbine?
The longer barrel does increases the velocity some, however the 9mm cartridge was designed to run in a short pistol barrel with fast burning powders like Titegroup, which I'm reloading with. I'm guessing once the bullet travels down the barrel 10-12", the pressure drops pretty quickly and you don't continue to gain velocity. There might be an increase of a 100-200 ft/sec but probably not much more than that.

The velocity for the curve above was 904 ft/sec. The velocity for the following curve is 1100 ft/sec.
You can see the drop at 100 yds is basically cut in half.

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Re: My Super 650 Dillon Build

Post by GlennSFX » Wed May 08, 2019 8:10 am

Despite all the once fired brass I have, I decided to try some from https://www.ammobrass.com/.
I purchased 4000 "Cleaned and Polished", once fired brass for $118 including shipping. I thought 3 cents per casing was a pretty good price. They also came highly recommended from a competitive shooter my son shoots with.

Package arrived yesterday and I was pretty happy with what I received. Brass looks like new!!!

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Planning to use these at matches where you can't retrieve your brass. I'll reload a few hundred for Saturday's USPSA match.
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