group at 10 yards rested, cheap ammo. Finger is poa. g19 was shooting same ammo with better result's
Ammo that one pistol likes that another doesn’t is a fairly common occurrence. I have even seen it with two pistols which were the same make and model and match grade ammo. It’s the main reason competition shooters chase the magic load for each of their pistols - especially bullseye guys.
The same is true for rifles. I have two ARs with the same barrel twist - one loves 77gr OTMs, the other one groups like a shotgun loaded with buckshot using the same 77gr OTM ammo but turns into a laser with 69gr HPs.
You can usually narrow it down to the actual cause if you look long enough. A slight difference in bullet diameter that matches up better with one barrel than the other, slightly different chamber dimensions or jump to the rifling, etc.
Full V2 mag at 10 yards...obviously on a day my eyes were cooperating:
VERY NICE!!!!
Agreed...ammo definitely makes a difference. The expectations you mentioned for competitive shooting are made easier to achieve with low PF ammo. It makes a huge difference in how flat the gun runs!
Or finding the accuracy node on the hot side of the load chart. I have some loads that use Power Pistol powder - that stuff loves to be loaded near max charge. It makes a basketball-sized muzzle flash but if you wait for the big purple spot to fade out of your vision between shots (or just shoot it on a really bright day), it will punch quarter sized groups.
Mt TP9SA has a preference for 1125 FMJ Federal Bulk ammo. Shoots that load into less than 2" at 25 yards. My 115 grain XTP load with Longshot has shot as tight as 1.2" but the norm is just under 2" at 25 yards. Cast bullets won't shoot better than 3" in my pistol for some reason.
My SFX with my handloads is a one hole gun. At 10 yards with the red dot, I've put 20 rounds into one ragged hole. At 15 yards it opens up a bit, that's me, not the gun. My buddy shot it off a rest at 25 yards and put 20 rounds inside a 2" sticky note.
He's waiting for GrabAGun to get them back in stock so he can buy one.
The last defensive pistol match at my club 5 out 0f 21 shooters were shooting a SFX. If my barrel had been back from having the throat opened up it would have been 6 out of 21.
...what sight picture are you holding?
The sights are setup for "Combat" sight picture (#3)...
Can you point me to another source indicating that this is the correct stock sfx sight picture.....it could explain my poa/poi issue...but before I go down this path and blow a lot of time and ammo trying this out, I just want to be as sure as I can. I'm getting old, and my mind is fragile.
Apologies if I have questioned an expert opinion.....no intent to offend.
...what sight picture are you holding?
The sights are setup for "Combat" sight picture (#3)...
Can you point me to another source indicating that this is the correct stock sfx sight picture.....it could explain my poa/poi issue...but before I go down this path and blow a lot of time and ammo trying this out, I just want to be as sure as I can. I'm getting old, and my mind is fragile.
Apologies if I have questioned an expert opinion.....no intent to offend.
thx
deadandgone
UPDATE:
Tried sight picture 3 after thinking about it...and after considering the plethora of sage advice....I was shooting low, and picture 3 poa is higher than 1, which is what I was using....viola....more better...now I just have to do my part to try to offset my age and my eyes....more practice = more fun!! Thank you!!
Back when I was very into matches and on Army team we always shot at 50 yds to test a pistol from a Ransom Rest with an air trigger release made from a blood pressure cuff pump, anything close to 3" was not used, (10 shots) we used a 5" barreled Rem 700 action bolted to a steel bench to test ammo before we tried it in our firearms, we had dial indicators to get a constant zero for every shot and re-zeroed each time, we tried many lots of ammo, usually the worst was Remington best was WCC Winchester, some of the older WW2 lots were loaded much hotter. Some were very accurate though even as a joke we shot some 43 steel cased and it shot great. We even tested our rimfire and used either blue box Remington or Eley 10x red box, it really made a difference. Not sure what the rifle team did.
The 3" factor including your wobble area would produce mostly x ring hits. Hardball guns the same standards of criteria just different ammo used.
A couple months ago at a USPSA match I had a couple of mikes (misses) and a few more D's than I would normally have. Surely the dot had lost its normal aim point, or the new gallant rounds I'd loaded were inconsistent. Or both.
I went to the range the following week with a lead-shot bag and rounds from the same Gallant batch.
Oh hell; from the bench-rest at ten yards that old SFx with roughly 10k rounds through it would put every bullet through a hole no bigger than a fiddy cent piece. Sigh. It was me, not the dot or the ammo that had been missing the target.
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Sfx groupings
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by Weapon » Wed May 01, 2019 5:31 pm
The same is true for rifles. I have two ARs with the same barrel twist - one loves 77gr OTMs, the other one groups like a shotgun loaded with buckshot using the same 77gr OTM ammo but turns into a laser with 69gr HPs.
You can usually narrow it down to the actual cause if you look long enough. A slight difference in bullet diameter that matches up better with one barrel than the other, slightly different chamber dimensions or jump to the rifling, etc.
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by Weapon » Wed May 01, 2019 5:36 pm
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by GaCop » Thu May 02, 2019 5:20 am
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by Texas1911 » Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 am
He's waiting for GrabAGun to get them back in stock so he can buy one.
The last defensive pistol match at my club 5 out 0f 21 shooters were shooting a SFX. If my barrel had been back from having the throat opened up it would have been 6 out of 21.
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by deadandgone » Thu May 02, 2019 2:44 pm
The sights are setup for "Combat" sight picture (#3)...
Can you point me to another source indicating that this is the correct stock sfx sight picture.....it could explain my poa/poi issue...but before I go down this path and blow a lot of time and ammo trying this out, I just want to be as sure as I can. I'm getting old, and my mind is fragile.
Apologies if I have questioned an expert opinion.....no intent to offend.
thx
deadandgone
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Thu May 02, 2019 5:38 pm
Nobody takes offense here on sharing info or asking question about it.
Go Navy! Beat Army!
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by Tejas Products » Thu May 02, 2019 6:51 pm
Manufacturer of firearm accessories
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by deadandgone » Sat May 04, 2019 4:14 pm
Tried sight picture 3 after thinking about it...and after considering the plethora of sage advice....I was shooting low, and picture 3 poa is higher than 1, which is what I was using....viola....more better...now I just have to do my part to try to offset my age and my eyes....more practice = more fun!! Thank you!!
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Sat May 04, 2019 4:15 pm
Go Navy! Beat Army!
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by Jolman » Tue May 14, 2019 9:56 am
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by varmint » Tue May 14, 2019 10:28 pm
The 3" factor including your wobble area would produce mostly x ring hits. Hardball guns the same standards of criteria just different ammo used.
Re: Sfx groupings
Post by BentAero » Tue May 14, 2019 10:57 pm
I went to the range the following week with a lead-shot bag and rounds from the same Gallant batch.
Oh hell; from the bench-rest at ten yards that old SFx with roughly 10k rounds through it would put every bullet through a hole no bigger than a fiddy cent piece. Sigh. It was me, not the dot or the ammo that had been missing the target.
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