The Offical Red Dot Thread

Focused Discussions for all Canik Firearms. (TP Series, P Series, Shark, Stingray & MKEK)
User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:52 am

jnichols2 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:42 am
Which plate did it fit?
Plate "01"
0 x

User avatar
LT USN (Ret.)
Global Moderator
Posts: 1445
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:17 am
Founding Member #: 7599
Location: Louisiana

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:32 pm

Janik wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:22 pm
20190124_145307.jpg
Actually looks pretty nice.
0 x
LT

Go Navy! Beat Army!

Image ImageImage

User avatar
LT USN (Ret.)
Global Moderator
Posts: 1445
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:17 am
Founding Member #: 7599
Location: Louisiana

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:46 am

Interesting article about red dots and hard sights. It's worth the read and discussion.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... paign=0119
3 x
LT

Go Navy! Beat Army!

Image ImageImage

User avatar
runeight
Member
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:00 pm
Founding Member #: 198
Location: Southwest Desert

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by runeight » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:13 am

LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:46 am
Interesting article about red dots and hard sights. It's worth the read and discussion.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... paign=0119
Very good link indeed. Bookmarked to read again.
0 x
We are in a civil war..
..we just haven’t brought out the guns.

User avatar
Janik
Staff Member
Posts: 1597
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 pm
Founding Member #: 001
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by Janik » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:26 am

LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:46 am
Interesting article about red dots and hard sights. It's worth the read and discussion.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... paign=0119
Good article. I just read it and learned a couple things. I'm still fairly new to red dots, and it looks like I need to break a couple bad habits addressed in the article. When I'm at the range, I shoot the red dots but end up shooting iron sights more since I'm faster with them. But if I do a couple things the article suggested, I will probably improve my efficiency with them. I'm going to give it a try next time I'm at the range.
0 x

User avatar
Janik
Staff Member
Posts: 1597
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 pm
Founding Member #: 001
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by Janik » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:28 am

Here's another article I just came across that was a 4 year study regarding red dots vs iron sights. https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-h ... -dynamics/
0 x

User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:55 am

Janik wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:28 am
Here's another article I just came across that was a 4 year study regarding red dots vs iron sights. https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-h ... -dynamics/
The article by Aaron and his numerous "torture tests" on red dots are good. That study has been around for a little while now and was a driving factor to putting the RMR on the Combat for EDC. Not that I'd beat the living daylights out of my RMR the way Aaron does in his tests, but from a reliability and battery life standpoint, the Trijicon is probably the best red dot out there.
0 x

User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:00 am

LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:46 am
Interesting article about red dots and hard sights. It's worth the read and discussion.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... paign=0119
That's a great article!!!
Since I started shooting the dot in competition, a few of the guys I met gave me the same advice..."TRUST THE DOT!". As soon as you see it on target, don't waste time trying to steady and center it, just pull the trigger.
1 x

User avatar
Janik
Staff Member
Posts: 1597
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 pm
Founding Member #: 001
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by Janik » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:34 am

GlennSFX wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:00 am
LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:46 am
Interesting article about red dots and hard sights. It's worth the read and discussion.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... paign=0119
That's a great article!!!
Since I started shooting the dot in competition, a few of the guys I met gave me the same advice..."TRUST THE DOT!". As soon as you see it on target, don't waste time trying to steady and center it, just pull the trigger.
That's what my problem has been. I've been trying to center and steady the dot. I notice the wobble, unlike with irons, so I've been faster on the trigger with irons.
0 x

ncjw
Member
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:16 am

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by ncjw » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 am

GlennSFX wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:00 am
That's a great article!!!
Since I started shooting the dot in competition, a few of the guys I met gave me the same advice..."TRUST THE DOT!". As soon as you see it on target, don't waste time trying to steady and center it, just pull the trigger.
Trusting the dot is a very expensive habit. With a little practice, you can start your trigger pull as you see the dot starting to converge on the target, kind of like leading the dot.

And then the ammo costs go through the roof as mag dump times become much shorter...
1 x

User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:26 am

Janik wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:34 am
GlennSFX wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:00 am
LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:46 am
Interesting article about red dots and hard sights. It's worth the read and discussion.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... paign=0119
That's a great article!!!
Since I started shooting the dot in competition, a few of the guys I met gave me the same advice..."TRUST THE DOT!". As soon as you see it on target, don't waste time trying to steady and center it, just pull the trigger.
I notice the wobble.
That wasn't as foreign to me as I shoot a single pin HHA sight on my 3D bow and hunting one for that matter. It's the same concept, where you'll never have a stationary "dot", you just want to "float" it on the target. It's the same with a laser, however the movement of the "dot" projected on the actual target, is much move pronounced.
1 x

ncjw
Member
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:16 am

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by ncjw » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:31 am

Agreed. I have shot laser equipped pistols and hate them, the red dot is just a more natural aiming aid, IMHO.
0 x

User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:35 am

ncjw wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 am
GlennSFX wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:00 am
That's a great article!!!
Since I started shooting the dot in competition, a few of the guys I met gave me the same advice..."TRUST THE DOT!". As soon as you see it on target, don't waste time trying to steady and center it, just pull the trigger.
Trusting the dot is a very expensive habit.
And then the ammo costs go through the roof as mag dump times become much shorter...
That's called "Trigger Control"! :lol:
And deliberate practice limited to double taps, transitioning to different targets and scoring the hits on each.
0 x

User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:41 am

ncjw wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:31 am
Agreed. I have shot laser equipped pistols and hate them, the red dot is just a more natural aiming aid, IMHO.
I have a Viridian C5L on my SIG and really like it. It's just something that you have to train and get accustomed to. The light/laser combo makes for a great nightstand gun. Wake up from a dead sleep and no issues illuminating (strobing) and lasering your target, all while you still have "sleepers" in your eyes! :lol:
0 x

ncjw
Member
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:16 am

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by ncjw » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:08 am

Granted, the Viridian is a much better laser solution (at a price)...
0 x

User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:27 pm

ncjw wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:08 am
Granted, the Viridian is a much better laser solution (at a price)...
Yea...on the pricey side but it is an excellent product.
0 x

User avatar
Weapon
Global Moderator
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:08 pm
Founding Member #: 005

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by Weapon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:31 pm

Janik wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:42 pm
runeight wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:59 pm
I very well could have this reversed. Glenn will know. ;-) when he is done shooting turkeys. :-?
No kidding, where's @GlennSFX or @Weapon on this issue. When I got my Sightmark Mini Shot M-Spec I did play around with it at the range and I was able to increase brightness and make the 3moa dot pretty big. I think going forward I'm going to buy 3moa whenever I can. That being said, the ADE I just ordered is 6moa, as I didn't see a listing for 3moa.
I was AFK due to stomach bug. :YMSICK:

Anyhoo...

Depending on the red dot sight, you can go with a smaller dot and then really crank up the brightness to get a larger dot or go with a larger dot and turn it down some. There are also other options like the Holosun 507c that give you circle-dot options.

Larger/brighter dot = much easier to pick up for most types of action pistol shooting. At typical USPSA shooting distances, a 6 or 8MOA dot isn't going to cost you much in terms of accuracy but they do take some getting used to if you have never used a larger dot.

Smaller dot = better for longer range or high precision. Some companies give you enough top end on the brightness settings to make a 2.5moa dot basically identical to a 6moa. The Sig Romeo 3 comes to mind but, unfortunately, it apparently will not fit on the SFx with the stock mounting options.

While dot size comes up a lot (it is fairly important), there do not seem to be nearly as many threads on window size (the bigger the better for competition), window glass tint/clarity (there is some really funky glass in some of them) or window height (the closer to the bore axis the better). If you are trying to transition back and forth between irons and dots, sight height is likely the most important of the three. By height, I don't mean the overall height of the sight but the height of the dot from the bore axis when the dot is centered in the screen. If you shoot nothing but red dots (almost impossible to do for the time being), you can get used to just about any of them with enough practice but if you have decades of iron sight shooting etched into your muscle memory, the lowest possible mounting will make your life much easier.
2 x

User avatar
Janik
Staff Member
Posts: 1597
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 pm
Founding Member #: 001
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by Janik » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:23 pm

Weapon wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:31 pm
I was AFK due to stomach bug. :YMSICK:
Sorry to hear that. Hope your feeling better. Glad to see you back on the board.
0 x

User avatar
GlennSFX
Global Moderator
Posts: 1198
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm
Founding Member #: 011
Location: MA

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:55 am

Weapon wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:31 pm
Janik wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:42 pm
runeight wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:59 pm
I very well could have this reversed. Glenn will know. ;-) when he is done shooting turkeys. :-?
No kidding, where's @GlennSFX or @Weapon on this issue. When I got my Sightmark Mini Shot M-Spec I did play around with it at the range and I was able to increase brightness and make the 3moa dot pretty big. I think going forward I'm going to buy 3moa whenever I can. That being said, the ADE I just ordered is 6moa, as I didn't see a listing for 3moa.
I was AFK due to stomach bug. :YMSICK:

Anyhoo...

Depending on the red dot sight, you can go with a smaller dot and then really crank up the brightness to get a larger dot or go with a larger dot and turn it down some. There are also other options like the Holosun 507c that give you circle-dot options.

Larger/brighter dot = much easier to pick up for most types of action pistol shooting. At typical USPSA shooting distances, a 6 or 8MOA dot isn't going to cost you much in terms of accuracy buy they do take some getting used to if you have never used a larger dot.

My first dot was an 8moa FastFire III and for the money it's a great value. I was looking for something that would be quick to pickup and help with making the transition from irons.

Smaller dot = better for longer range or high precision. Some companies give you enough top end on the brightness settings to make a 2.5moa dot basically identical to a 6moa. The Sig Romeo 3 comes to mind but, unfortunately, it apparently will not fit on the SFx with the stock mounting options.

The issue I have with "cranking up" the dot is I find it somewhat distracting. The dot ends up "blooming", and for me, it messes with my sight picture. When using the "auto adjust" brightness setting, I find the brightness is 1 to 2 setting higher than what I would set manually. Again that's me and just might be a personal thing.

While dot size comes up a lot (it is fairly important), there do not seem to be nearly as many threads on window size (the bigger the better for competition), window glass tint/clarity (there is some really funky glass in some of them) or window height (the closer to the bore axis the better).

Having the FasfFire, Venom, Trijicon and now the Deltapoint, I can attest that the DPP is the quickest to draw and have your dot on target. The larger glass is like going from a 32" TV to a 55"! I saw the biggest difference when shooting weak hand. The extra glass really made a difference. The "tint/coating" really isn't an issue for me. The tint of the RMR really doesn't impact the sight picture. I find I'm pretty much focused on the target and floating the dot on it, and don't really notice it.

If you are trying to transition back and forth between irons and dots, sight height is likely the most important of the three. By height, I don't mean the overall height of the sight but the height of the dot from the bore axis when the dot is centered in the screen. If you shoot nothing but red dots (almost impossible to do for the time being), you can get used to just about any of them with enough practice but if you have decades of iron sight shooting etched into your muscle memory, the lowest possible mounting will make your life much easier.

The drawback to the plate mounting system, as you mentioned, is the height of the sight window over the bore axis. HOWEVER, the big advantage of the plate system is having the ability to mount different optics. When transitioning to a red dot, most don't want to drop $4-500 dollars only to find out they either don't like it or tried a friends and like their optic better.
Glad to hear you're feeling better!

As always, you covered all the concerns and issues of running a dot on a handgun, and making the transition. Things most of us wouldn't think about!! :-BD

:-? ...It will be interesting to see the details of the new mounting system Janik found on a couple new Canik guns. Definitely lowers the optic, appears to be half the height of the current plates.
0 x

User avatar
Weapon
Global Moderator
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:08 pm
Founding Member #: 005

Re: The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by Weapon » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:19 pm

Hopefully the new mounting system will allow for additional options like the RTS2 and Sig Romeo3. I was looking at both as they both have larger windows when I came across posts saying that neither would fit the current SFx mounting system due to the base length on both of those sights. The lack of mounting options for the Romeo3 was really a disappointment as that is a nice dot with a big, clear window and plenty of brightness settings.
0 x

Post Reply