The Offical Red Dot Thread

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Janik
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The Offical Red Dot Thread

Post by Janik » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:26 pm

I finally decided to join the cool kids and add a Red Dot to my SFx. I went with the Vortex Venom 6moa since that's what most people suggested. I've never ran a Red Dot on a pistol before, so I figured I'd start with what a lot of people have and as I evolve, will go from there. Anyway, with all the great RMR's out there, post up a pic of what your running on your SFx or Elite Combat, what you think of it and why you chose that specific Red Dot. This is a highly researched topic so a dedicated thread may be helpful to people searching. If you've done any modifications, post a link to your thread to help others find the info easier.

Update: I've recently added a Sightmark Mini Shot M-Spec to my Elite Combat. I like it so far, but I think it's going to end up on one of my AR's.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:52 pm

NICE!!!
You're gonna love it!

Burris FastFire III 8 moa on the SFX...
Went with the Burris because I originally wanted the Venom in a 6 moa, but no one had them available!
And like you, wanted to go with a larger dot size.

Image

Vortex Venom 3 moa on the Combat...
My son talked me into going with the 3 moa, actually he was pushing me to get the 3.5 Trijicon. Didn't want to drop that much on an optic and not like the smaller dot size. HOWEVER...after more than 1K rounds through the Combat, I'm really liking the smaller dot. After the IDPA match Saturday, plan to use the Combat, I just might be putting a smaller dot on the SFx.

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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by Janik » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:59 pm

GlennSFX wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:52 pm
HOWEVER...after more than 1K rounds through the Combat, I'm really liking the smaller dot.
Glad to hear I was thinking going 3moa on my Combat if I put one on there. I decided on the 6moa to get started, and go from there. I may leave the 6moa on the SFx since it's primarily for competition. I watched a YT review from an "expert" last night who does recommend the 3moa. He says if you want the dot bigger, increase brightness. He says you can make a 3moa mimic a 6moa, but can't make a 6moa mimic a 3. Makes sense.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by ncjw » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:05 pm

Janik wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:59 pm
He says if you want the dot bigger, increase brightness. He says you can make a 3moa mimic a 6moa, but can't make a 6moa mimic a 3. Makes sense.
Jake : "That's what I told 'em!" - Silverado (1985)
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:49 pm

Janik wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:59 pm

He says you can make a 3moa mimic a 6moa, but can't make a 6moa mimic a 3.
To a certain extent...but once you're in bright sunlight, I've found the dots are maxed out on their brightest setting...the 3 ain't getting any bigger!!! :lol:

I think you made the right choice to start with the 6!
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by Janik » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:18 pm

GlennSFX wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:49 pm
I think you made the right choice to start with the 6!
Thanks. Heading to the range in a few to sight it in. And of course, the Combat will have to tag along. :)
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:08 pm

Janik wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:18 pm
GlennSFX wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:49 pm
I think you made the right choice to start with the 6!
Thanks. Heading to the range in a few to sight it in. And of course, the Combat will have to tag along. :)
AWESOME...let us know how it goes.

One tip...with the dot, keep both eyes open, stay focused on your target and extend out until the dot appears in your line of sight. Only 1 thing to be concerned with now and not 3! ENJOY!
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by runeight » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:15 pm

I’m waiting on the Dawson front sight and still plan on a sprinco guide rod. Will see on the guide rod.

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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:51 pm

For initially zeroing your red dot, this is a great target to zero at 10 yards. The grid is set up for "10 Clicks" to an inch for adjusting your optic based on your POI. The direction to adjust your optic is circled in the corners of the target. Obviously this is based on a 1 moa adjustment on your optic.

http://arma-dynamics.com/pistol-targets.html

Image :-BD

Once you have your 10 zeroed, use this ballistics chart to determine your elevation adjustment to get your zero at 20 or whatever distance you want to use. I used 115g Aguila ammo with a velocity of 1150. Just enter the bullet weight, initial velocity, zero range, chart range and chart step size to get your ballistics curve. You can plot multiple zeros and look to see which is the flattest for your ammo. Typically 20 and 25 will be best from 10 - 50 yards. For me a 20 yard zero was looking real good.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/balli ... ate+Chart+
This link has the setting for a 20 yard zero, 115g bullet and 1150 initial velocity. All other setting should be set.

As I mentioned earlier I zeroed at 10 and found my calculated POI at 20 was right about 1" high. So theoretically, if I moved my target out to 20 yards, and shoot with my "10" zero, my POI should be 1" high. At 20 yards the moa adjustment would be 5 clicks to move an inch. I adjusted my optic down 5 clicks to start and needed another 3 to get my actual zero at 20 within the circle. This was all done on a bag/rest to insure a stable platform.

Image

This is a good way to get your optic zeroed in without going back and forth trying to start out at a long distance. I actually did my initial zero with a training laser bullet and my ShootOff software at 5 yards just so I know I would be somewhat close.
I have a thread in the training section that gives details on what you need to set this up.

viewtopic.php?f=25&p=8435#p8435
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:04 pm

runeight wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:15 pm
I’m waiting on the Dawson front sight and still plan on a sprinco guide rod. Will see on the guide rod.

Image
Since getting the Combat...I'm really digging the FDE!!!!!
Nice looking SFx!
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by Janik » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:10 pm

GlennSFX wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:51 pm
For initially zeroing your red dot, this is a great target to zero at 10 yards.
Damn, wish I had this before I left for the range. The indoor range I go to is limited to 20 yards, but the Venom says to sight in at 25. So, I did it at 20 yards and I'm happy so far. Took a little getting used to, but I'm getting there. Here's a target at 20 yards after a couple mags and I felt I was getting the hang of it. I'm not a bullseye shooter, but I'm happy with the group at 20 yards. The size of the target used is 12x18 inches. After I got done sighting in the Venom, I switched to the Combat. Man, I don't think I can ever go back to iron sights. I need more RMR's. Also, we should start a dedicated thread with downloadable targets. That would of been a great resource for helping sight in the Venom. I may print one off and use that to really dial this thing in.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:17 pm

Janik wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:10 pm
GlennSFX wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:51 pm
For initially zeroing your red dot, this is a great target to zero at 10 yards.
After I got done sighting in the Venom, I switched to the Combat. Man, I don't think I can ever go back to iron sights. I need more RMR's.
See...I told you so!!! :lol:

Looks like you were shooting well with it.
Glad it is working out.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:19 pm

Janik wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:10 pm

Also, we should start a dedicated thread with downloadable targets. That would of been a great resource for helping sight in the Venom. I may print one off and use that to really dial this thing in.
That would be a good idea.
I have some good closeup training targets I use mainly outdoors, along with some good range targets.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:37 pm

Janik wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:10 pm
GlennSFX wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:51 pm
For initially zeroing your red dot, this is a great target to zero at 10 yards.
I may print one off and use that to really dial this thing in.
You can use this target at 20 yards, just divide the horizontal and vertical scale numbers by 2 for the number of clicked needed to adjust your POI.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by jnichols2 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:45 am

A lot of what I would normally say, has already been said; however, I do have a point.

Many shooters say not to get a red dot or laser, they are just wasteful gimmiks.
That depends on where you are on the continuim of time.
We will all reach the time when that pesky front sight is hard to see, let alone focus.
Then we have to see/focus three separate areas (Rear Sight, Front Sight, and Target) all at once.

The laser and target are both the same distance, so you only have to focus on one point.
The red dot and target aren't in the same place, but your brain says they are, and mentally focuses them for you.

When you reach that age, the "wasteful gimmiks" suddenly become Godsends.
You don't shoot "better", but now you can see what you are shooting better.

Also; even if you have perfect eye sight, if the red dot or laser lets you keep both eyes open, it does wonders for your periphial vision.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by Janik » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:14 am

jnichols2 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:45 am
When you reach that age, the "wasteful gimmiks" suddenly become Godsends.
You don't shoot "better", but now you can see what you are shooting better.

Also; even if you have perfect eye sight, if the red dot or laser lets you keep both eyes open, it does wonders for your periphial vision.
Lol, that must be what's happening to me. I can't even read a magazine without setting it on the floor. But honestly, I really did think red dots on handguns were a gimmick and only for competition shooters. I really enjoyed shooting it last night and getting tighter groups at distance. Almost felt like I was cheating. Now my internal struggle though is, do I sell off some of my guns that don't accept RMR's and wait for and buy new ones coming to market? Or, do I continue to train with both? Is it better to accept one system over the other and train exclusively? Or continue to train and shoot with both and try to be as proficient as possible? I think the writing on the wall is RMR's on handguns are here to stay, and I bet in the next couple/few years we're going to see some revolutionary products coming to market.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:53 pm

jnichols2 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:45 am
A lot of what I would normally say, has already been said; however, I do have a point.

Many shooters say not to get a red dot or laser, they are just wasteful gimmiks.
That depends on where you are on the continuim of time.
We will all reach the time when that pesky front sight is hard to see, let alone focus.
Then we have to see/focus three separate areas (Rear Sight, Front Sight, and Target) all at once.

The laser and target are both the same distance, so you only have to focus on one point.
The red dot and target aren't in the same place, but your brain says they are, and mentally focuses them for you.

When you reach that age, the "wasteful gimmiks" suddenly become Godsends.
You don't shoot "better", but now you can see what you are shooting better.

Also; even if you have perfect eye sight, if the red dot or laser lets you keep both eyes open, it does wonders for your periphial vision.
^^...Couldn't have said it better!!!

Without my weak 1.25 reading glasses...there is no such thing as a Clear Front Sight!!! :cry:

There's a lot to be said about being able to have your dot on your target/threat and have full situational awareness of your environment. That's the reason I have the Viridian C5L on my 320. Didn't want to spend the money on milling the slide before having experience with a RMR. The laser provides the same technical advantage as the dot over the irons.

That's where the SFx came into the picture. I wanted a comp gun, it had great reviews, was optic ready, and you couldn't beat the price.

As I've mentioned in other threads, the Combat would have been the "Perfect Gun" if Canik provided for mounting a rear iron sight. I took it as far as I could go with the Dawson Front sight, which actually works pretty well.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:04 pm

Janik wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:14 am
jnichols2 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:45 am
When you reach that age, the "wasteful gimmiks" suddenly become Godsends.
You don't shoot "better", but now you can see what you are shooting better.

Also; even if you have perfect eye sight, if the red dot or laser lets you keep both eyes open, it does wonders for your periphial vision.
do I sell off some of my guns that don't accept RMR's and wait for and buy new ones coming to market? Or, do I continue to train with both? Is it better to accept one system over the other and train exclusively? Or continue to train and shoot with both and try to be as proficient as possible?
That's where having the co-witness/1/3 co-witness with iron sights gives you the best of both worlds. Just tun the dot off and you're right back to where you started from! I HOPE CANIK IS READING THIS!!!! :YMPRAY: :YMPRAY: :YMPRAY:

Even without the true rear iron sight, I plan to train with the Combat using the Venom rear lines and front sight. The one draw back is you need "light" for that fiber to glow. I'm planning to use the ShootOff software and my laser bullet to train at home with the sights. It's just becoming accustomed to getting the proper sight picture with the front sight positioned over the optic body.

If I really want to have have one BADARSE Combat...I'll just have to throw the Viridian on it!!! :lol:
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by Janik » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:27 pm

GlennSFX wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:04 pm
Even without the true rear iron sight, I plan to train with the Combat using the Venom rear lines and front sight.
I'm considering the Delta Point Pro for my Combat. I just like the fact that you can add the rear iron sight. I wouldn't be surprised though if in the near future a new line of RMR's hit the market with rear iron options. Someone has to make a product for all the people who would lose their rear iron, either with a plate that attaches to the rear dove tail, or an RMR cut. It would just be too expensive to sell all your guns and buy new. I also wouldn't mind a sight that's etched in the glass if that's possible. 1/3 cowitness in the lower portion.
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Re: The Offical RMR Thread

Post by GlennSFX » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:43 pm

Janik wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:27 pm
GlennSFX wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:04 pm
Even without the true rear iron sight, I plan to train with the Combat using the Venom rear lines and front sight.
I'm considering the Delta Point Pro for my Combat.
I did as well. The rear sight option was what drew me to it. Unfortunately there were a lot of bad reviews/issues with the optic not turning on from sleep mode and burning through batteries. They're attractive for competition shooting because they have a really large window. One of the articles I read was from a comp guy who had gone through 3 units and was still having problems. I really didn't like the "going to sleep function" and "waking on draw", and to hear guys were having problems with it really turned me off.

Here's a couple articles on it...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.ph ... ro-problem

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php ... ucks/page8
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