Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

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sgschwend
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Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by sgschwend » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:41 pm

Here is the results of today's trip to the range; shot at 20 yards.

I am struggling with using steel sights. Today I used my progressive glasses which by tilting my head I can by get a clear view of the sight but not the target, or any combination all the way to seeing the target but fuzzy image of the sights. Today I shot with different ways of looking through the progressive glasses. I think the best was an OK sight picture and a decent target picture. Not sure head tilting will work in competition.

Previous shooting was using "cheaters" which are closeup lenses, picking the correct magnification the focal point is moved out to allow gun sights be in focus (the target is difficult to see this way).

So what I am asking is how to resolve my vision problem without switch to a optics. Is there another method such as instinctive shooting that might be better?

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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:57 pm

sgschwend wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:41 pm
So what I am asking is how to resolve my vision problem without switch to a optics.
If you Google it, you can find reverse readers or whole lens readers.

Reverse readers have the magnifying part on the top and normal on the bottom, whole lens are exactly as they sound, everything is magnified. I have been using a set of the whole lens type for quite some time when using iron sights.

BTW, target should be blurred as the focus should be on the front sight. They eye cannot focus both close up and distant. It should look like this:

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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by colonel00 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:13 pm

Yep, as LT states, you won't be able to focus on the target, and the sights (front sight) at the same time. What gun are you shooting?
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by sgschwend » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:23 pm

I am shooting a TP9SF, with a 4.46" barrel. The image is likely the best I have shot offhand.

Thanks you-all for the info.

Steve
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by 45shooter » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:37 pm

If you have a friendly optometrist that will work with you, you might try a shooting prescription. Not sure exactly how to explain it but what worked for me was to go .75 towards my reading prescription. Then have your shooting eye lense ground to that prescription. Don't go all the way to the reading prescription, that will clear up your front sight but you'll lose a lot of target clarity; just go .75 towards it. It really cleared up the front sight and I can see the targets pretty well all the way out to 50 yards. Hope this helps.
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by qballbandit » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:46 pm

Attacking it from another angle -
What is the application of your shooting? Recreational, defensive, competitive?
What is the reason for shooting at 20 yards? Did you, or do you shoot at closer distances?
Judging by the size of the bulls eye, those would be a very reasonable defensive shooting group, though I don't know at what speed you laid them in there.

Neil 8-)
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by zeda3000 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:24 am

Most complicate parts of shooting is focus. Cause you can show to people how to hold the gun , how to keep your legs or how to squeeze trigger , but you cant show how to focus. it is all about imagination

There is two way of aiming ,

1- Range Target shooting : You dont need it focus on paper , cause it never move, it always stay and waiting there. You have to focus your sight picture to get better accuracy.

2- Tactical shooting: You have to focus your target cause it is moving or running. You have to see not just your target , also arround the target . (Target may run left or right, you have calcalute the lead) . The sight must be blur , target must be more clear in your sight.

I didint understand you are using glass for reading or long distance. If your eye is good in long distance dont use any glass. Reading glass always make problem in shooting.

I am never using Range Target shooting method. Cause i am always practice for Tactical shooting and also i am professional Skeet Shooter. We are shooting clay fly from left to right 90km/h speed. My mind calculating to lead and focus better without looking to sight.

This articale taken by Clay shooting book. This is most common problem for shooters. I hope it will help you. If you doing this exercies every day 5 times. You may start to get better focus picture.

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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by ncjw » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:14 am

Agree with above. Unless you want to compete in bullseye, 20-25 yds is pretty far for a pistol. In a defensive situation you better have a very good reason for engaging someone at that distance. Not that it doesn't happen and not that it isn't good to keep improving your skills, but I would recommend starting closer, getting proficient, and then slowly moving further out.
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by sgschwend » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:12 am

Wow, great stuff. I want to thank all of you for this information. I do want to be able to just pull and shoot either for protection or local competition. I have heard about a shooting style that sounds like what was referred to as tactical shooting. If I could learn that method my far sighted vision wouldn't be as big of an issue. Are many folks shooting the tactical way or the front sight focus way or both ways?

To clarify: progressive eyeglasses are bifocal glasses that don't have a line but a region of the lens that transition from the closeup lens to the distance lens. To shoot with these type of eyeglasses you would look through the transition area where the front and rear sight would be in focus. Cheaters are store bought glasses, the buyer picks a pair that the magnification fits their needs. By subtracting some power from you optometrist determine prescription the standard 12" focal point will move out to where the pistol is held.

Thanks again for the help,
Steve
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by zeda3000 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:32 am

HI Steve

My suggestion is , please order glass only for long distance and use these glasses only for shooting without bifocal option. Bifocal lenses may make problem in your sight picture. During shooting you are not reading something. Reading glass using only for 20-35 cm distance focus.
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by varmint » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:56 am

On pre arrangement I took my competitive pistol with me to my eye doctor with a pre written letter to enter the building with it as posted 06, he had me hold the pistol in several shooting stances with both weak and primary hands also and developed my glasses from all this, several other patients were sure giving me the evil look when he had me in the longer hall area measuring distances, they helped very much, never hurts to ask as I did so.
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by Tejas Products » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:28 am

May I also suggest that you bring the target in closer.... Start at about 5 - 7 yards until your very comfortable with your stance, site picture, etc.... I consider myself a pretty decent shooter, but 20 yards is stretching it even for me with a pistol...... As far as self defense, at 20 yards (60 feet), you might have some explaining to do... That's a long way for a shot.... Just my opinion....
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by sgschwend » Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:48 pm

Thanks for the advice. I am going to follow it and lucky for me there is a fun steel shoot this Satuday (28th).
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by sgschwend » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:52 pm

Update: 01-05-2020
I helped a buddy setup his rifles and took the 9mm. I didn't have much time to shoot only this one target. Eight inch target at 18-20 yards. I tried glasses two way: 1) clear target, 2) clear sights. Not a lot I can say, but I shot a lot better than at the competition. I want to get this good with or without glasses.

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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:58 pm

sgschwend wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:52 pm
I tried glasses two way: 1) clear target, 2) clear sights
Was one better than the other for you? For me, the focused front sight picture works much betterly (it's a word).
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by ncjw » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:39 pm

LT USN (Ret.) wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:58 pm
sgschwend wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:52 pm
I tried glasses two way: 1) clear target, 2) clear sights
Was one better than the other for you? For me, the focused front sight picture works much betterly (it's a word).
Better is already an adverb so betterly would be an adverb of an adverb, so, uh, no...

Back on topic and to zeda's point, I disagree. If you wear bifocals (as I do) or progressives every day, you won't have time to switch to your tactical glasses when the occasion arises for a tactical engagement. Practicing an aimed point and shoot at a closer distance (per zeda's earlier post comparing tactical to clays, which I completely agree with) with your daily glasses would seem to be the better way to go.

Put an LE qualifying torso target at 5 yds and get 2-3 anywhere in the points area to start and in the 9-10 ring after time (or anywhere on a full size IDPA paper target). The center mass of a human is actually pretty big.

(BTW, one thing that he didn't mention is that you also have to be aware of bystanders nearby and BEHIND your target. It's a lot to ask.)

For target or competition shooting, by all means wear whatever glasses help your score.
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by LT USN (Ret.) » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:47 pm

ncjw wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:39 pm
Better is already an adverb so betterly would be an adverb of an adverb, so, uh, no...
English is my second language and I don't have a first....

My reference is related to competition and target shooting as you said. A point-and-click interface for self-defense is how I practice and anticipate that it will go down.

So, we are in agreement as to "wear what you brung..."
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by sgschwend » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:36 pm

I really appreciate all the contributions.
In the shoot the first task was large steel at 15 yards. I certainly did that as a point and shoot, no problem and obtained a short time score. That was great. I need to learn how far I can get away with that method, it is inherently the funnest method. I need to do more of the tactical method more, certainly a real tactical issue will be dealt with however you are setup, no timeouts allowed. The instructor I talked with said he trains his student to pick the method for the situation and distance. I have competed in archery using the 'bare bow" method which would equate to the tactical method. I felt like I need that skill for hunting in low light when I would not be able to see the sights.

Via the question about what was better: for that 18-20 yard shot seeing the sights was more accurate. I just didn't take time to determine the difference. I did keep shooting in sight view mode and was able to chopped up that target.
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by GlennSFX » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:43 pm

sgschwend wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:36 pm
Via the question about what was better: for that 18-20 yard shot seeing the sights was more accurate. I just didn't take time to determine the difference. I did keep shooting in sight view mode and was able to chopped up that target.
At distance with irons...a clear front sight will always win out!

BUT...glasses solely for that purpose, isn't practical for shooting competitively or tactically. With aging eyes the only real solution is going to a dot!!! I see from @LT USN (Ret.) latest videos, he's made the switch! GOOD MAN! :lol:

There is a learning curve moving to one, but if you have solid form and a consistent draw, it doesn't take too long to make the switch. I think in the long run you'll enjoy shooting more with it, and the nice thing is, you're always focused on your target/threat. Better in my opinion for real world situations too. My EDC is a SIG P320c with an X grip, slide milled for an RMR, co-witnessed irons and a Viridian C5L. Fortunately I only need 1.25 readers and can get away without them using my irons. Not as accurate as the dot, but the holes are all in the torso at 7 yards. Viridian laser gives me the...I don't have to see the irons or dot, just light up the spot I want to hit and it's there. Oh yea...and the strobe light blinds the $hit out of you! :lol: I guess you could call it my "WTSHTF do everything gun"!!! :-D

Biggest challenge in a real world situation will be managing the adrenaline. It's going to happen and the shakes come with it. That's why I tell people to get into some form of competition. Shooting with other people watching you, waiting and hearing that buzzer, will definitely get the nerves going for sure when you first start. Even as you become more "seasoned", and depending on the level of competition, you'll still have to deal with it and manage it.

Just my two cents from and old guy who still tries to kick the "youngins" asses!!! :AR!
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Re: Eight Weeks of practice, Feedback apprciated

Post by BentAero » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:43 pm

A couple years ago my optometrist hooked me up with custom glasses that solve the front sight vs Target dilemma; the right lens strength is set at about 36", which is the distance from my eye to the front sight? The left lens is infinity/Target distance. This is fairly common with contact lenses, but somewhat rare with eyeglasses as this combo makes some people nauseous. They work perfect for me, and are the best shooting accessory I've ever bought. Being 'single vision' lenses (two different single vision lenses) they cost a lot less than progressive's too.

A full service optometrist can whip together a trial/test set for you to try. He sent me outside too walk around with them on, and to dry fire my, uh, device. The difference was stunning. Before you buy, have your doc put a test set together. You'll either love them or hate them instantly.

He also talked me into going with Oakley lenses, as their Optics are so crisp and pure. Man, was he right. I'm surprised at the clarity every time I put them on. Like them so much, I just had a pair of Oakley daily-wear progressive's made.

Fwiw, the Steel Challenge stages "Outer Limits" and "Speed Option" both have plates at 35 yds / 105 ft... Not only do I no longer fear them, I actually do fairly well on them when using these glasses.
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