Freedomsmith-top2 canik-fanatic-ad-top3 Frankthetank
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Focused Discussions for all Canik Firearms. (TP Series, P Series, Shark, Stingray & MKEK)
#48340
My FS Zombie Pro showed up and I finished the installation. The FS ZP takeup is 2.64mm and the reset is 2.30mm. This will work!

I like the recessed sides rather than the large flat area of the stock trigger. The black trigger with the holes looks real cool on the gun!
Attachments
Freedomsmith Zombie Pro Trigger.GIF
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#48344
I have a FS trigger in both my Caniks (TP9 SFx and Rival). I think I even have the Zombie Pro in my Rival.

I like the way it reduces take-up versus stock, and that is why I have them.

But, according to my digital gauge, it does actually add a slight amount of weight to the trigger pull. I think it was only about 4 ounces, which is easy enough to deal with.

And, I also have to note that I think the difference between the stock safety dingus and the FS safety dingus is a point in favor of the stock trigger.

The stock Rival trigger safety dingus is very wide. It is most of the width of the trigger. There is NO way you would ever pull on that trigger and not have the safety dingus pressed, so that the gun fires.

In contrast. the FS safety dingus is skinny - which I think is a real negative. Being skinny just means it is that much harder to ensure it's properly depressed. You definitely CAN get your fingertip on a FS trigger where it's not really on all the way, but it is on enough to pull the trigger without fully depressing the safety dingus. I have had it happen to me a few times each with my TP9 and my Rival. I pull the trigger and the gun doesn't fire because I failed to really get the proper grip (hurrying - in a match) and my finger did not get fully onto the trigger. Only the very tip of my finger.

And then, once I pull it back and the safety dingus hangs up and prevents the gun from firing, you have to fully let off the trigger before you can try again. Just shifting your finger over and pulling harder doesn't work.

I really do not know why Freedomsmith seems to make a point of having a really skinny safety dingus. If it wasn't for how much shorter the takeup is on the FS, I would not have one on my Rival. When I get my Rival-S, I'm going to do everything else to it and shoot it a fair bit with the stock trigger (not stock trigger springs - just stock trigger blade/shoe) before I consider putting another FS trigger in.
#48348
The biggest benefit from the Freedomsmith trigger in my TP9SFX was the elimination of takeup. There is a dramatic decrease in the amount of takeup before the trigger is ready to break. It may not sound like a lot but I measured the FS trigger at 3.4mm of takeup while the stock Rival-S has 6.8mm (based on my calculations).

The more takeup, the more opportunity I have seen to unconsciously affect the point of impact.
#48349
Gd421 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:57 pm If my grip is so bad that I miss a narrow safety I'm not hitting what I'm shooting at anyway.
I can say with confidence that I am better than that. :D When it has happened to me, I did not adjust my grip. Only let off the trigger and shifted my fingertip over a tiny bit, and continued shooting. And, while I am pretty darn slow, I am generally in the top 10 of my local matches on accuracy. Mid-pack on overall scoring.

I'm not missing my targets because my grip is off enough that I don't fully hit that safety dingus.
#48350
Georgef wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:37 am The biggest benefit from the Freedomsmith trigger in my TP9SFX was the elimination of takeup. There is a dramatic decrease in the amount of takeup before the trigger is ready to break. It may not sound like a lot but I measured the FS trigger at 3.4mm of takeup while the stock Rival-S has 6.8mm (based on my calculations).

The more takeup, the more opportunity I have seen to unconsciously affect the point of impact.
100% agree on the benefit of the FS. Reduction of the takeup.

But, as the weight of the takeup is very light, and I only do that once, at the beginning of each string of fire, I'm not as confident as I used to be that the takeup on a stock Rival trigger is really anything to worry about. Thus my plan to shoot my Rival-S for a while before (if) I change to a FS. When I got my Rival, I put a FS in immediately, as that's what I'd been using in my TP9 SFx. But, now I'm not so sure if it was really any "real world" benefit.
#48352
Is anyone running a Trijicon SRO on their Rival S?
While I really like the Holosun 507C I have on mine, I’d like that larger field of view. I know the hood/shroud can hang over the ejection port, wondering if anyone here has an SRO and if it has any negative affects on the Rival S?
#48353
I run an FTP Alpha 3 on my Rival. I believe the window is essentially the same size as the SRO, and it's a lot less expensive. Available with 6, 8, or 10 MOA dots. I run the 10.

I have a second FTP sitting right here, just waiting on my Rival-S to come.

https://fasttoys.net/shop/FTP-Optics-Al ... -Sight-V2/

There's a long thread on the Enos forums about these optics, if you want to learn more about them.
#48355
I don’t know how good the Mecanik red dots are, but allegedly they are releasing a 3rd one with a bigger window and 8 MOA dot. That could be interesting.

In interim I am running a Holosun 507 with green circle and dot. Would like a bigger window though.
#48358
Thanks Stuart.. If they had a smaller dot, I’d be interested for sure.
With my astigmatism, I prefer a 3 or smaller MOA dot. Without glasses, it’s at least manageable.
Larger than that…big smudge/comma looking dot on the glass :)

The SRO can be found for only $100 more than the price point you posted…and comes with a smaller MOA dot.
#48364
Dajogejr wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:19 am Is anyone running a Trijicon SRO on their Rival S?
While I really like the Holosun 507C I have on mine, I’d like that larger field of view. I know the hood/shroud can hang over the ejection port, wondering if anyone here has an SRO and if it has any negative affects on the Rival S?
I have an SRO on a Rival-S. No issues whatsoever. Pulled it off a Mete PRO and put it on the Rival-S... shot for first time today. Total adjustment required was 1 click up. :d
#48365
ColdTurkey wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:20 pm I have an SRO on a Rival-S. No issues whatsoever. Pulled it off a Mete PRO and put it on the Rival-S... shot for first time today. Total adjustment required was 1 click up. :d
Thank you sir. Once I sell my Competitor…I think SRO is in my very near future!
#48366
Rival to Rival-S compatibility and incompatibility

FYI

The OG top end (slide and barrel with guide rod) fits on the steel frame but does not fully go into battery. The trigger can be pulled, the striker releases, and cycling the slide resets the trigger. I won't shoot it without everything locked up properly so I am abandoning my plan of using the OG top end.

It's probably out of battery because of the different barrel and locking block. Like the OG, the locking block is an insert in frame, but it is longer than the OG block.

I did not test the -S barrel in the OG slide on the -S frame; it might work.

In front of the locking block is a plastic buffer, which was just frame material in the OG. This buffer is retained by screws holding the checkered "thumb" pieces. These pieces might make the -S not fit a holster closely molded to the OG. The gun fits in my Red Hill competition holster.

The OG trigger bar can be dropped into the -S, along with its FreedomSmith trigger.

All the trigger job springs (plunger, trigger, striker) are compatible between OG and -S.

The -S accepts the W74 guide rod and Wolff Commander recoil spring from the OG.

The optic plates are compatible between OG and -S.

My -S barrel plunked all sample rounds of the three heavy bullet loads I use in the OG: 147gr jacketed flat point, 147gr plated round nose, and 150gr coated flat point, all at 1.13". Your results may very; I doubt they use the same reamer for every barrel and tools wear.

OG MecGar magazines with OG aluminum base plates seat and drop free in the -S. This is a surprise as I was told they don't work. Maybe it's the new alum plates included with the -S that don't work? That doesn't make any sense. Maybe the OG plates don't work with the new Canik mag tubes in the -S? Maybe the steel frame dimensions aren't controlled very well.

OG MecGar magazines with Taylor Freelance extended base plates seat and drop free in the -S.
#48367
Dajogejr wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:12 pm Thanks Stuart.. If they had a smaller dot, I’d be interested for sure.
With my astigmatism, I prefer a 3 or smaller MOA dot. Without glasses, it’s at least manageable.
Larger than that…big smudge/comma looking dot on the glass :)

The SRO can be found for only $100 more than the price point you posted…and comes with a smaller MOA dot.
A few things, just for your informational purposes.

The FTP does not overhand the front, like the SRO does, and which I think you expressed concern about.

The FTP can be had for less with an easy-to-find discount code. I think I used "humble22" when I got my last one, which I got from watching a Humble Marskman review of the FTP on YouTube.

When I got my 10 MOA, I was surprised at how small it looked. Side by side with my 407CO, 8 MOA donut of death, the 10 MOA on the FTP is slightly smaller. The owner at FTP responded to my query about it and said that there is no industry standard for how to measure the size of the dot. So, you cannot necessarily compare MOA numbers from dots from different manufacturers.

Which carries the side note that the FTP 6 MOA could possibly be smaller than somebody elses 3.

Also, I have a little astigmatism as well. It seems to me that some dots are more affected by my astimatism than others. I think it comes down to the individual manufacturer and the quality of their glass and precision of their laser emitter. And the individual person's eyes. So, just because one big dot looks blurry does not mean that the same size dot on a different brand or model of optic will also look blurry.

I don't care which one you buy. Not trying to push you into the FTP. Just making sure you have all the correct info. :)

Holosun 407CO on left. FTP Alpha 3 10 MOA on right.
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#48368
Good call Stuart…thanks for the info. Good to know about manufacturer dot to dot MOA size.
The only thing I have to compare it to are DeltaPoint Pro, Holosun and Romeo sights.
My wife’s old 320X full size had a 6MOA Romeo on it and it really, really was bad for me. I know, Sig Romeos aren’t excactly known for their quality, I get it.
The 2.5 DPP and 3MOA Holosun seem, to my eyes on my pistols, very, very similar… but I hear you.

A good day at the range. This Canik is really my favorite gun which I can shoot consistently with…. 12 yards, 10 rounds. Relatively small circle.
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#48370
2strokeYardSale wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:33 am Rival to Rival-S compatibility and incompatibility

FYI

The OG top end (slide and barrel with guide rod) fits on the steel frame but does not fully go into battery. The trigger can be pulled, the striker releases, and cycling the slide resets the trigger. I won't shoot it without everything locked up properly so I am abandoning my plan of using the OG top end.

It's probably out of battery because of the different barrel and locking block. Like the OG, the locking block is an insert in frame, but it is longer than the OG block.

I did not test the -S barrel in the OG slide on the -S frame; it might work.

In front of the locking block is a plastic buffer, which was just frame material in the OG. This buffer is retained by screws holding the checkered "thumb" pieces. These pieces might make the -S not fit a holster closely molded to the OG. The gun fits in my Red Hill competition holster.

The OG trigger bar can be dropped into the -S, along with its FreedomSmith trigger.

All the trigger job springs (plunger, trigger, striker) are compatible between OG and -S.

The -S accepts the W74 guide rod and Wolff Commander recoil spring from the OG.

The optic plates are compatible between OG and -S.

My -S barrel plunked all sample rounds of the three heavy bullet loads I use in the OG: 147gr jacketed flat point, 147gr plated round nose, and 150gr coated flat point, all at 1.13". Your results may very; I doubt they use the same reamer for every barrel and tools wear.

OG MecGar magazines with OG aluminum base plates seat and drop free in the -S. This is a surprise as I was told they don't work. Maybe it's the new alum plates included with the -S that don't work? That doesn't make any sense. Maybe the OG plates don't work with the new Canik mag tubes in the -S? Maybe the steel frame dimensions aren't controlled very well.

OG MecGar magazines with Taylor Freelance extended base plates seat and drop free in the -S.
As it relates to the barrels I concur the TP9 bbl works in the Rival but not the Rival-S (By "works" I mean the slide fully seats in battery).
Similarly, you may have been able to pull a complete slide off a Mete SFX or SFX Pro and put it on the Rival (I do not own the original Rival but i know i the slides are 100% interchangeable from the Mete SFX and SFX Pro) .. However putting one of them on a Rival-S results in the same issue as the TP9 barrel, where the slide hangs back several millimeters.
I'm attempting to upload some pics where you can see the profile of the Rival S bbl (Black) is completely different from the OG Rival/Mete profile (Chrome) and just how different the locking blocks are on the two frames.

Also, shameless plug... I might be interested in selling this chrome fluted Mete bbl along with an Aluminum TF backstrap and magwell.
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#48372
This might be a dumb question.
Could a good aftermarket barrel maker take the Rival-S barrel and make a duplicate? I'm thinking someone like Jarvis who already makes a Walther barrel.
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