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Focused Discussions for all Canik Firearms. (TP Series, P Series, Shark, Stingray & MKEK)
By StuartV
#46423
2strokeYardSale wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:26 pm
Jester560 wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:05 am The best deal going is the FTP Alpha 3 @ $379. I have one on my comp SFx and it is a steal at that price.
Even less with a discount code. I got two at about $365 each and moved one to my Rival. Big window, big dot (or small if that's your thing), bright, adjustable, and fits on the included 06 plate.

Here it is most recently:
post46395.html#p46395
Thanks for posting that! The info that I already have a suitable adapter plate pushed me over the top. I just ordered an A3. I requested a 10 MOA, as the owner posted in another forum that there will be a few in the next shipment. If not, then I'll take an 8.

I REALLY like the 407CO (8 MOA donut) that I put on my Rival. But, the window size on the A3 looks like a pretty nice advantage over the 407/507C window (for shooting competitions, which is all I use my Rival for). And I have something else I think I would like to use one of my Holosuns on. Probably move my 507C from my TP9 SFx to an AR15 I have and then move the 407CO to the TP9. A3 on the Rival, and good to go (for a minute, anyway). LOL!
#46424
StuartV wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:45 pm
2strokeYardSale wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:26 pm
Jester560 wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:05 am The best deal going is the FTP Alpha 3 @ $379. I have one on my comp SFx and it is a steal at that price.
Even less with a discount code. I got two at about $365 each and moved one to my Rival. Big window, big dot (or small if that's your thing), bright, adjustable, and fits on the included 06 plate.

Here it is most recently:
post46395.html#p46395
Thanks for posting that! The info that I already have a suitable adapter plate pushed me over the top. I just ordered an A3. I requested a 10 MOA, as the owner posted in another forum that there will be a few in the next shipment. If not, then I'll take an 8.

I REALLY like the 407CO (8 MOA donut) that I put on my Rival. But, the window size on the A3 looks like a pretty nice advantage over the 407/507C window (for shooting competitions, which is all I use my Rival for). And I have something else I think I would like to use one of my Holosuns on. Probably move my 507C from my TP9 SFx to an AR15 I have and then move the 407CO to the TP9. A3 on the Rival, and good to go (for a minute, anyway). LOL!
Well just FYI the 06 plate lacks the posts to fit in the recesses of the FTP (RTS2 footprint) for some reason. I have some experience with this, as somebody milled my Glock for the RTS2 footprint without the posts. (Then it's not the footprint then is it?!) I figured out a good adhesive to fix the sight in addition to the screws. It has worked on the Glock and is now working on the Rival.

FWIW I have about 4800 rounds through two FTP sights, on two Glock 17s and the Rival. One had a loose battery connection and I shimmed it with a piece of paper.

I would have got the 10 MOA dot if I could but both times I ordered he only had the 8 MOA.
By StuartV
#46427
2strokeYardSale wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 7:30 pm
StuartV wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:45 pm
2strokeYardSale wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:26 pm
Even less with a discount code. I got two at about $365 each and moved one to my Rival. Big window, big dot (or small if that's your thing), bright, adjustable, and fits on the included 06 plate.

Here it is most recently:
post46395.html#p46395
Thanks for posting that! The info that I already have a suitable adapter plate pushed me over the top. I just ordered an A3. I requested a 10 MOA, as the owner posted in another forum that there will be a few in the next shipment. If not, then I'll take an 8.

I REALLY like the 407CO (8 MOA donut) that I put on my Rival. But, the window size on the A3 looks like a pretty nice advantage over the 407/507C window (for shooting competitions, which is all I use my Rival for). And I have something else I think I would like to use one of my Holosuns on. Probably move my 507C from my TP9 SFx to an AR15 I have and then move the 407CO to the TP9. A3 on the Rival, and good to go (for a minute, anyway). LOL!
Well just FYI the 06 plate lacks the posts to fit in the recesses of the FTP (RTS2 footprint) for some reason. I have some experience with this, as somebody milled my Glock for the RTS2 footprint without the posts. (Then it's not the footprint then is it?!) I figured out a good adhesive to fix the sight in addition to the screws. It has worked on the Glock and is now working on the Rival.

FWIW I have about 4800 rounds through two FTP sights, on two Glock 17s and the Rival. One had a loose battery connection and I shimmed it with a piece of paper.

I would have got the 10 MOA dot if I could but both times I ordered he only had the 8 MOA.
Just to ask the obvious… Do you actually need the adhesive? It moves around without it?
#46431
StuartV wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 10:46 pm
2strokeYardSale wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 7:30 pm
StuartV wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:45 pm

Thanks for posting that! The info that I already have a suitable adapter plate pushed me over the top. I just ordered an A3. I requested a 10 MOA, as the owner posted in another forum that there will be a few in the next shipment. If not, then I'll take an 8.

I REALLY like the 407CO (8 MOA donut) that I put on my Rival. But, the window size on the A3 looks like a pretty nice advantage over the 407/507C window (for shooting competitions, which is all I use my Rival for). And I have something else I think I would like to use one of my Holosuns on. Probably move my 507C from my TP9 SFx to an AR15 I have and then move the 407CO to the TP9. A3 on the Rival, and good to go (for a minute, anyway). LOL!
Well just FYI the 06 plate lacks the posts to fit in the recesses of the FTP (RTS2 footprint) for some reason. I have some experience with this, as somebody milled my Glock for the RTS2 footprint without the posts. (Then it's not the footprint then is it?!) I figured out a good adhesive to fix the sight in addition to the screws. It has worked on the Glock and is now working on the Rival.

FWIW I have about 4800 rounds through two FTP sights, on two Glock 17s and the Rival. One had a loose battery connection and I shimmed it with a piece of paper.

I would have got the 10 MOA dot if I could but both times I ordered he only had the 8 MOA.
Just to ask the obvious… Do you actually need the adhesive? It moves around without it?
Well the first time I mounted the FTP to my milled Glock, without adhesive, maybe a different adhesive, it came loose when the screws came loose. These things require belts and suspenders. Threadlocker on the screw threads, nail polish or something like it on top of the screws with witness marks, the whole nine yards.
By StuartV
#46660
I received my FTP Alpha 3 10 MOA optic today.

I traded a couple of emails with Phil @ Fast Toys to confirm that I did receive the correct optic and there is nothing wrong it.

I have to say I am a bit disappointed. Side by side, the 8 MOA donut dot on my 407CO is clearly bigger than the 10 MOA dot on the A3.

Phil's response to that was this:
There is no industry standard for the red dots to compare one to another. Lumination level, burst etc will affect how big a dot appears. We just provide our manufacturer spec which is one of our dots relative to another of our dots.
So, I take that to mean the FTP 10 MOA is bigger than their 8 MOA which is bigger than their 6 MOA. In which case, I am REALLY glad I didn't order one of those!

Now I am torn. I really like the bigger dot in the 407CO better. But, the window on the FTP is slightly bigger (though it seems that it is mostly taller - not much wider).

All that combined with the anticipated pain of trying to mount it* has me debating to return it or just sell it while it's still new.

* Apparently, mounting it means trying to use the #6 plate that came with my Rival, but which has no locator studs on top to keep the optic from moving around, or spending more money to buy a plate from FTP (or somewhere else). And then there's the issue of finding screws with the right threading and length for the optic and whichever plate I go with.
#46661
Turn down both sights to a very low setting and use them outdoors on the same target or object at the same time. Only then can you determine their relative dot size. Once you get it extra bright and blooming it may appear bigger than actual size, but the quality is poor ("blooming").
By StuartV
#46662
@2strokeYardSale you have the 8 MOA FTP, right? How does the dot size on it compare to other dots you have looked at, size-wise?

Is it actually bigger than the dot on a 5 MOA SRO, for example? Bigger than the dot on a 6.5 MOA RMR?

I am REALLY stumped that what I got is claimed to be 10 MOA. If the FTP 6 MOA is barely more than 1/2 the size of this one, it is SMALL.

Also, the brightness of the FTP is one of its selling points. But, I shot a USPSA match this past weekend with my 407CO. It was blazing out. I could EASILY see my dot. It may or may not have been turned up all the way. I don't know because I turned it up until I could see it easily and then stopped. If it was maxed out, it was not because I turned it up until it wouldn't go any brighter. I turned up until it was plenty bright enough - whether that was Max or not.

Here's a picture of the 2, side by side. Holosun on the left, FTP on the right. This is with them both turned down to a brightness that I would use if I were shooting in that room. Neither, bright enough to look like the dot/donut is "blooming".
Attachments
DOTs-sm.jpg
DOTs-sm.jpg (160.86 KiB) Viewed 321 times
By StuartV
#46663
Here's another shot.

In this one, the FTP is turned down its lowest brightness setting.

The Holosun is turned down so that it appears to be just slightly less bright than the FTP. It would go much lower.
Attachments
DOTs-sm2.jpg
DOTs-sm2.jpg (144.27 KiB) Viewed 320 times
By StuartV
#46664
Oh, and I think I figured out why the #6 plate doesn't have the locator studs like you'd expect. I think it's because Canik just happened to locate the screws for holding the plate to the slide in the exact spot where the locator studs would need to be.

I'm guessing that's why the pictures of the A3 mounted to a Canik using the Fast Toys adapter plate show it seeming to be farther forward on the slide than it looks like it should be.
#46672
StuartV wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:58 pm @2strokeYardSale you have the 8 MOA FTP, right? How does the dot size on it compare to other dots you have looked at, size-wise?
I have two FTP Alpha 8 MOA, two C-More Slide Ride 8 MOA, and all the dots are identical. I also have a C-More with I think a 6 MOA and it's just a bit smaller.

Sometimes I'll present the gun and think the dot is smaller than usual, and it's the lighting conditions, background of the targets, such as a light sand berm on a bright sunny day. That's why there's a brightness control.
By StuartV
#46708
Just a quick FYI.

I received my FTP Alpha 3. The R06 plate that came with my Rival has the right screw holes but no locator studs (as previously mentioned by @2strokeYardSale) to fit the A3 (and Sig Romeo 3 and C-more RTS2).

Long story short, I tried the 03 optic plate that came with my TP9 SFx. It IS the correct footprint for the A3. It has the right screw holes and the locator studs. The Rival owner's manual even says that the R06 plate is the footprint for a C-more RTS2 and the R03 is correct for a C-more STS2. And, apparently those 2 from C-more have the same footprint. So, I'm not really sure why Canik has the 03 and the 06.

The bad news is that the R03 plate does not come with the Rival. And, the Canik website has the 03 plate available to order, but not the R03. And in the description of the 03 it specifically says it does not fit the Rival.

I have not (yet) removed my Holosun and plate from my Rival and actually TRIED fitting the 03 plate on. Looking at it, I suspect that it will fit just fine. I suspect that the reason Canik says it doesn't fit is because the machining on the sides of the plate matches the serrations on the sides of the TP9 slide and does not match the serrations on the sides of the Rival slide. I.e. it's just cosmetic.

My suspicion is that other than the cosmetics, the 03 and R03 plates are the same.

The 03 plate on Canik's site is $19.99. Assuming the R03 plate is the same (whenever I can get one), I'd pay $20 for the plate just to have it be matchy-matchy with my slide (and keep my 03 plate available to put on my TP9, if I ever want to). But, I really do not want to pay $86 (after shipping) to buy the adapter plate that Fast Toys offers for the A3 on a Canik. Especially since it does not match the cosmetics, either.

If anybody knows where I can actually order an R03 plate, please let me know.

At some point, I will test whether the 03 plate fits on the Rival and report back.
#46709
Interesting, STS2 and RTS2 are same hole and stud pattern, with the RTS2 having a larger sight body footprint. The FTP Alpha has a larger body still on the same hole pattern, ditto for the Sig Romeo3/XL/Max.

Image
Image
Image

I've got a few thousand rounds through the FTP on a milled Glock without the studs and the Rival 06 plate without the studs.
By StuartV
#46711
2strokeYardSale wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:09 am Interesting, STS2 and RTS2 are same hole and stud pattern, with the RTS2 having a larger sight body footprint. The FTP Alpha has a larger body still on the same hole pattern, ditto for the Sig Romeo3/XL/Max.

I've got a few thousand rounds through the FTP on a milled Glock without the studs and the Rival 06 plate without the studs.
But you used an adhesive on your R06 plate, right?

As soon as my longer mounting screws arrive from Amazon (tomorrow), I will verify if/that the FTP mounts to the Rival using the 03 plate (from my TP9 SFx).

For anyone that doesn't have a TP9SFx to scavenge from, the Canik USA site does have the 03 plate available to order for $19.99.

I guess that Canik makes the R03 and R06 plates so that you can mount the bigger optics (e.g. the Romeo 3) without them overhanging the slide at all. I.e. completely and only over the plate itself. But, I really don't know why anyone would care about that.

Since they can't do the locator studs on the R06 plate (because of where the screw holes are for mounting the plate to the slide), it seems like they should have just made the R03 and included that in the Rival box. Either not bother to make the R06 at all, or just have it be an optional accessory you can order.

But I digress.

I am really looking forward to (hopefully tomorrow) getting the FTP mounted up and ready to try out.
By StuartV
#46717
I received my M3x12mm screws (as recommended by Century Support) today.

I tried them with the 03 plate and the R06 plate. They go right through the holes in the plate. Way too skinny.

Thanks, Century Support!

So much for being lazy. I will have to go to Home Depot tonight and see if they have the right screws in stock.
By StuartV
#46748
I finally got my FTP mounted on my Canik. Here are some further observations.

I was attempting to mount it to the 03 plate that came with my TP9 SFx. M3 bolts were too skinny for the threaded holes in the 03 plate. M4 bolts were too thick.

I attempted to test fit the 03 plate on the Rival and the FTP on the 03 plate, mounted on the Rival.

The 03 plate fits on the Rival just fine. EXCEPT, it is not flush with the top of the slide. The plate is just a smidge lower than the top of the Rival slide.

To mount the FTP to the 03 plate means having the front of the optic hanging out past the front end of the plate. And since the slide is raised a bit higher than the top of the plate, that turns out to not work. Unless maybe you put some shims under the optic plate. A few thicknesses of tin foil would probably do it. But, I did not try.

I went back to looking at the R06 plate. The M4 screws thread into the R06 plate perfectly.

The R06 plate also is slightly lower than the top of the Rival slide. The FTP optic does not overhang the R06 plate, though. And, in fact, it's exactly the right length so that when I put it all together on the Rival slide, the front of the optic butts up tightly against the raised edge of the slide. So, now that I've assembled it, I think the missing locator studs on the plate aren't so big of a deal.

The M4 x 12mm screws with flat heads that I had gotten from Amazon are not long enough to reach through the FTP and into the threads of the optic plate.

I got some M4 x 15mm socket head screws at Home Depot and they work perfectly. M4 x 12 socket head would probably also work, as the threaded portion of a socket head screw is longer than the threaded portion of a flat head screw. But, I figured if 15mm were not TOO long, then the extra engaged threads would help it hold more securely.

I would really prefer flat head screws (which means they are flat on top, but angled on the sides of the head to go into countersunk holes). The self-centering nature of flat heads seems like it would provide extra help to keep the optic from moving, since it doesn't have locator studs under it. If I can find some online I will probably order them and try them. In the meantime, I am hopeful that the screws I put in, combined with being butted up against the lip of the slide will hold the optic stable.

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