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Discussion for Competition Shooting.
By Shooter212
#40221
Setting up a sfx for uspsa carry optics. I have base pads and holster and that stuff. I am looking for recommendations on springs, trigger return spring, guide rod spring for the W74 guide rod, striker springs. I am going to put the freedomsmith trigger in, taylor freelance brass back strap. Any other cool go fast parts that I am missing.
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By LT USN (Ret.)
#40222
I like the Wolff 14# commander spring with a 6.5# striker spring.

You using +0 base pads? I use Taylor Freelance +4. Besides more rounds, the extra weight helps the mag to drop free.

I'm using the extended slide release too.

Which optic are you going to use?
By ncjw
#40223
What weight of bullet are you planning to use?

I haven't noticed much of a difference between 14# and 15# with the W74 using 124gr commercial loads in my admittedly non-race configured SFx.
By Shooter212
#40224
I am going to run a SRO 5 moa when I can find one just have viper on there now. I have the plus 4 brass pads I like the added weight. I am running 124grn bullets at about 133-135 power factor so I am thinking 15lb spring would be good then.
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By Jester560
#40289
I run the 15#, Wolff Colt Commander length recoil spring.
Definitely get the Galloway Precision spring kit to accent the Freedomsmith trigger. Which model trigger are you going with?
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By LT USN (Ret.)
#40332
Any of the Freedomsmith triggers work well. How you like to square up your finger on the trigger will make a difference.

I like to square up mine and come directly backwards (vice a little on the side) so, I go with the original.
By Hardmix
#40987
I was running pretty much same set up....all the springs mentioned in rebuild threads (14 lb recoil), TF brass backstrap, w74 guide rod, sro, Comtac pouch, and Boss hanger. Bullet 125 black bullets with 4.0 N320.
By StuartV
#45234
Shooter212 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:05 pm Setting up a sfx for uspsa carry optics. I have base pads and holster and that stuff. I am looking for recommendations on springs, trigger return spring, guide rod spring for the W74 guide rod, striker springs. I am going to put the freedomsmith trigger in, taylor freelance brass back strap. Any other cool go fast parts that I am missing.
I just started shooting my SFx in USPSA CO. Looking at the rules, it looks to me like changing out the back strap for a brass one would be not allowed. But, I'm new and don't pretend to have a good grasp on how they interpret the rulebook.

Is a brass back strap really allowed in Carry Optic?
By SFXowner
#45240
Shooter212 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:01 pm I am going to run a SRO 5 moa when I can find one just have viper on there now. I have the plus 4 brass pads I like the added weight. I am running 124grn bullets at about 133-135 power factor so I am thinking 15lb spring would be good then.
Shame - primary arms had the 5 moa on sale for mid 400's this weekend, I think they still ahve them in stock.

Weapon's thread is the best source for good info. Reduced spring sets from galloway and 14/15# springs should be fine.
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By LT USN (Ret.)
#45249
StuartV wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:15 pm
Shooter212 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:05 pm Setting up a sfx for uspsa carry optics. I have base pads and holster and that stuff. I am looking for recommendations on springs, trigger return spring, guide rod spring for the W74 guide rod, striker springs. I am going to put the freedomsmith trigger in, taylor freelance brass back strap. Any other cool go fast parts that I am missing.
I just started shooting my SFx in USPSA CO. Looking at the rules, it looks to me like changing out the back strap for a brass one would be not allowed. But, I'm new and don't pretend to have a good grasp on how they interpret the rulebook.

Is a brass back strap really allowed in Carry Optic?
Yes, this change is allowed.

Is there a specific rule you have seen that brings this question up?
By StuartV
#45252
LT USN (Ret.) wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:25 pm
StuartV wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:15 pm I just started shooting my SFx in USPSA CO. Looking at the rules, it looks to me like changing out the back strap for a brass one would be not allowed. But, I'm new and don't pretend to have a good grasp on how they interpret the rulebook.

Is a brass back strap really allowed in Carry Optic?
Yes, this change is allowed.

Is there a specific rule you have seen that brings this question up?
Yes. Appendix D7, rule 21 lists authorized modifications. It basically says you can only modify the specific things listed under rule 21 and anything not listed is not allowed.

Nowhere under rule 21 does it say you can change the backstrap.

21.4 says "replacement grip panels" are allowed. Based on many (non-gun) competitions I have been in throughout my life, I could see an interpretation of that that says the backstrap is a "rear grip panel" and so it can be replaced. I can also see an interpretation that says a grip panel is one of the pieces on the side of the grip area, and a backstrap is a backstrap, not a grip panel.

21.6 is regarding exchange of minor external components and it lists things like magazine releases, thumb safeties, etc. that can be changed, but it does not list a backstrap.

So, I don't see anything that specifically allows changing of the backstrap. But, I do see a POSSIBLE interpretation of rule 21.4 that would allow it.

Under rule 21, it says a shooter may be required to demonstrate compliance by identifying a specific rules clause or published interpretation which authorizes any disputed modification.

If somebody disputed my changed backstrap, there is no rule I could point out that says a backstrap is allowed.

Is there a published interpretation somewhere that says that a backstrap is interpreted to be a "replacement grip panel"?

I ordered a TF backstrap today, so I reckon I'm going to start shooting with it, regardless. But, I would definitely feel more confident that I'm not going to get disputed and DQ'ed for an unauthorized modification if I can get some written confirmation that the replacement backstrap is officially allowed.
By StuartV
#45253
LT USN (Ret.) wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:25 pm
StuartV wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:15 pm
Shooter212 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:05 pm Setting up a sfx for uspsa carry optics. I have base pads and holster and that stuff. I am looking for recommendations on springs, trigger return spring, guide rod spring for the W74 guide rod, striker springs. I am going to put the freedomsmith trigger in, taylor freelance brass back strap. Any other cool go fast parts that I am missing.
I just started shooting my SFx in USPSA CO. Looking at the rules, it looks to me like changing out the back strap for a brass one would be not allowed. But, I'm new and don't pretend to have a good grasp on how they interpret the rulebook.

Is a brass back strap really allowed in Carry Optic?
Yes, this change is allowed.

Is there a specific rule you have seen that brings this question up?
In other words, if I dispute YOUR backstrap as an Unauthorized Modification, per rule 21, how will you show compliance with rule 21 and avoid having the Range Master rule that you have a Prohibited modification (for Carry Optic division)?

I'm guessing that USPSA has published somewhere an interpretation that the backstrap is allowed. I'm just new and haven't seen it and don't know where to find it. And I emailed my USPSA Area Coordinator this morning asking about this and have not gotten a response yet.
By WxGuy
#45254
I put the Zombie Pro F/S trigger in my SFX. Changed the whole gun!! W74 rod and 15 Commander spring. Brass backstrap and the carry extended mag release from TF. I put a Venom 6moa on it and the front sight barely performs the co-witness.
Have a blast!
If you cover the grip with silicone carbide, who would know? Rule the game.
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By LT USN (Ret.)
#45255
My answer may not quench you thirst for a very specific answer.

Under 21.4 it says "replacement grip panels" are allowed as you stated. The rear is part of the of the overall grip panels. It's not a black & white answer but it's the interpretation as I understand it.

I have never been asked to prove any modifications I have made were legal or not. I have had my height of grip and distance from my body measured at a level II match before. The weight restrictions were recently changed to up the allowed weight. Without making mods such as the back-strap mod you could never even get close to the 59 oz. allowed.

See that the section rep says in the email reply.
By JackinSD
#45256
LT USN (Ret.) wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:15 pm My answer may not quench you thirst for a very specific answer.

Under 21.4 it says "replacement grip panels" are allowed as you stated. The rear is part of the of the overall grip panels. It's not a black & white answer but it's the interpretation as I understand it.

I have never been asked to prove any modifications I have made were legal or not. I have had my height of grip and distance from my body measured at a level II match before. The weight restrictions were recently changed to up the allowed weight. Without making mods such as the back-strap mod you could never even get close to the 59 oz. allowed.

See that the section rep says in the email reply.
I completely and totally agree with your understanding.
By StuartV
#45259
LT USN (Ret.) wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:15 pm My answer may not quench you thirst for a very specific answer.

Under 21.4 it says "replacement grip panels" are allowed as you stated. The rear is part of the of the overall grip panels. It's not a black & white answer but it's the interpretation as I understand it.

I have never been asked to prove any modifications I have made were legal or not. I have had my height of grip and distance from my body measured at a level II match before. The weight restrictions were recently changed to up the allowed weight. Without making mods such as the back-strap mod you could never even get close to the 59 oz. allowed.

See that the section rep says in the email reply.
Yeah, even with the brass backstrap, I don't think you could get close to the weight limit. Or even the old limit. My gun, with Holosun and factory 20 round magazine is only 30 ounces. I think the brass backstrap and brass +4 base pad only add a total of 5.5 ounces, or something like that. Tungsten guide rod is another 3-ish? You could probably a light on the rail and still be under the old weight limit, much less the new limit.

I just don't like cheating. Which means I don't want to have anything that COULD, ultimately, get ruled as ME cheating. Some people subscribe to the theory that it's only cheating if you get caught. I am not one of those. If I ever beat somebody in a competition, I am going to know that I did it fair and square. Never a question in my own mind that I only won because I cheated. I may win because I did a better job of using the rules to my advantage, but that is not cheating. That is just being better at the game.

Still no word back from the Area Coordinator. I wonder if he's had to kick it up the chain of command because there really IS no rule that allows it. Calling a backstrap a "grip panel" is, well, a stretch. But, as long as USPSA makes it official that that is their interpretation, I am fine with it.

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