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Basic Firearm and Defensive Skills and Training Discussion Section.
#37180
Hi,

With the TP9 I'm able too shoot (single hand) quite good results when taking the time. For competition it's all about speed. In the fasted round (still single hand) I'm all over the place.
I think it is a combination of a lightweight pistol and me pulling to hard on the trigger.

Any tips how I could practice this?

I have no options for hardware improvement like trigger and such since I'm in Europe, so I have to work with the pistol as it is.
I wonder if I made a wrong choice on my pistol or that there are plenty of people shooting fast and accurate single handed with the TP9?

p.s. With both hands I'm pretty accurate, also in fast rounds.
#37186
Dry fire is of limited utility when trying to develop rapid follow-up shooting. It's mostly about kinesthetics and recoil control. Grip and forearm strength exercises will give you more to work with when controlling recoil. Snap-shot dry fire drills may help with trigger control a little; on the beep, extend from a compressed ready and pull the trigger as quickly as possible while maintaining a sight picture.

Mantis X may be of some use.

A Coolfire Trainer, if it fits your pistol, might be an option if it is available in Europe. It's a gas-operated system that allows multiple shots with slide cycling and some recoil.
#37231
I had a USPSA match on Saturday and the classifier involved strings consisting of shooting single handed with both strong and weak hands. I did ok with the strong hand but did horribly with my weak hand. I definitely need to work on this skill and look forward to your input about steps to improve it.
#37240
Shooting strong or support hand only, is something that just takes practice. It's mainly about trigger control, and not trying to fight the recoil. For us "dot" shooters, it's all about trusting the dot, and not anticipating the recoil on the trigger pull. Your splits are going to be slower no matter how good you are!

Funny @Lgaam mentioned the Mantis, as i just got my X10 in last Thursday. I bought it mainly for live fire use, and one thing in particular, was to analyze single hand recoil. Didn't get a chance to use it outdoors yet, but found that there are a number of "drills" that can be used for dry fire as well, that really help with trigger control. It's actually a pretty cool little device.

Another thing to consider when talking "for competition use", most of us are reloading and running low power factor ammo. These rounds make a BIG difference in one handed shooting. Getting back on target isn't too difficult when "riding" the recoil. I think like most, support hand is what we don't practice enough!!!!! 8-|

Here's the worst shots I had out of 10 with strong and weak hand. You can see that there is "downward" movement of the muzzle as the trigger is pulled with either hand. Part of that is we are griping the gun harder with the shooting hand and it's harder to keep the trigger finger "loose".

Blue: hold/sighting. Yellow: trigger pull. Red: Shot breaking and recoil pattern

STRONG HAND...
Image

WEAK HAND...
Image

With freestyle, you can keep the trigger hand looser, which typically results in a smoother trigger pull as shown below.

FREESTYLE...
Image
#37287
Thanks a lot for replying all. I see there is a lot to learn here.

Maybe some additional information about the discipline I'm talking about. I think it's a little different from most types in USA, but maybe I'm wrong and do some of you also compete in these kind of competitions.

It's called MP for Military Pistol and involves 4 rounds, each 6 shots, so total 24 and maximum score is 240. Top score per shot is 10, lowest on the outside is a 6. You miss, this is costly, you got zero points.

1: 25 meter - standing - 3 minutes - 1 card
2: 20 meter - standing - 15 seconds - 1 card
3: 20 meter - kneeling - 12 seconds - 2 cards (3 shots each)
4: 15 meter - standing - 9 seconds - 3 cards (2 shots each)

All rounds, single handed. Red dot, not allowed. The first round is about precision, you can take 'all' the time you want. A score between 55 and 60 should be possible for everyone.
Then comes the fast rounds and I've got the most trouble. I wonder if I had such a shot tracker like above, it probrably would be very interesting to see.

To reflect, the top shooters will score an average of around 230 out of multiple games over time.

Example of target card setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMnojGELHz4

Although the title of the video states it's MP, it's not. The setup is the same, but this is called SP service pistol and has different timing and routines and you can use both hands. I was not able to find a good MP video though, but as I say the setup is the same.

But maybe I'm explaining way to much and are you well aware of these, but only calling it different? :smile:
#37293
That's an interesting course of fire. Closest thing to that I've shot, would be the IDPA 5x5 Classifier. 25 shots all from a static standing position at 10 yards. Includes 5 shots strong hand only, and a 5 reload 5 string.

Just to give you some sort of time comparison, I ran the course of fire in 17.4 secs. Had 3 shots in the down 1 for 3 secs added to my time for a final score of 20.4 secs.

Here's the target...
Image

Image

Based on the times you have listed, my gut instinct is you're probably anticipating the shot. The last 3 stage times aren't super fast, and it's likely your dropping the muzzle on the shot. The Canik triggers are really good out of the box regarding the reset and trigger break, however the initial "take up" is quite long. Most of us here took care of that with the Freedomsmith triggers. Unfortunately they don't have an export license. :sad:

Another thing shooting one hand only is, you will be using a stronger/tighter grip with the single hand which leads to the "trigger finger" not being as loose when shooting freestyle. This can also lead to the muzzle not being stable during the trigger break. Typically the support hand is doing more of the work to stabilize the gun.

Do you have some pictures of your targets/cards so we can see what's happening, and to get an idea of the scoring rings???

Yes...a device like the Mantis can be used during "live fire", so you could definitely get some feedback as to what's going on with the gun. It also gives you suggestions on how to correct what you're doing wrong.

We do have "Precision Pistol Shooting" here, but most of it is shooting 22lr pistols. Scopes/dots are allowed.
#37303
Thanks. I will keep some cards to show what the results are.
Just to give you some sort of time comparison, I ran the course of fire in 17.4 secs. Had 3 shots in the down 1 for 3 secs added to my time for a final score of 20.4 secs.
I think that's pretty fast 8-)

The Mantis would be awesome. Not available at the moment here and not cheap anyway, but I will serious consider this.

Just did some training and had a little breakthrough. Normally on 'fast' shooting, just after the shot I just wait and see where the gun would end pointing to (2cm up down, left right, I don't mean to the other side of te range :d ), then try to focus on the front sight as fast as I could again. But this time I consciously let the recoil went up, keep the pistol straight, then lower the barrel down in a straight line and fire again. This way the front sight comes in, in a smooth movement. Probably as one should do it, but no one ever told me. So this was resulting is quite some better results already, makes me happy :lol:

So I got on my list:
  • Work on arm strength
  • Dry fire training
  • Relax my grip
  • Consider a Mantis device
  • Practice practice practice
#37304
seer wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:06 am Thanks. I will keep some cards to show what the results are.

Just did some training and had a little breakthrough. Normally on 'fast' shooting, just after the shot I just wait and see where the gun would end pointing to (2cm up down, left right, I don't mean to the other side of te range :d ), then try to focus on the front sight as fast as I could again. But this time I consciously let the recoil went up, keep the pistol straight, then lower the barrel down in a straight line and fire again. This way the front sight comes in, in a smooth movement. Probably as one should do it, but no one ever told me. So this was resulting is quite some better results already, makes me happy :lol:

So I got on my list:
  • Work on arm strength
  • Dry fire training
  • Relax my grip
  • Consider a Mantis device
  • Practice practice practice
That's GREAT! The idea is to control the recoil and get the gun back on target as quick as possible. With two hands, you want to have the front sight tracking straight up and down. With one hand you are going to experience sidewards motion. I wouldn't relax my grip . You don't need to "crush" the gun, you want to make sure you have a solid grip to assist in recoil control. Also when shooting one handed, don't stand "square" to the target. If right handed and shooting strong hand, have your right foot forward, and body turned towards the left. Do the opposite when shooting weak hand.

Keep up the good work!!!

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