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Basic Firearm and Defensive Skills and Training Discussion Section.
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By Ghostwolf308
#23
Original post by ssgndoc on the old Canik Fanatik Forum

For a defensive tool, such as a handgun for carry purposes, reliability is going to be a number one priority. How do you decide a pistol has proven itself reliable enough for you to depend on in an emergency as well as withstanding regular carry?

I’ve seen a wide spectrum on various forums. Some folks will buy a new handgun, run 100 rounds of range ammo through it and maybe a mag if whatever hollow point ammo they decided to buy to carry, and call it good enough to start packing in their holster.

Other folks will not consider carry until a pistol has digested 1,000-2,000 rounds and they have tried most brands of range and defensive ammo.

I tend to be more middle of the road and may not apply the same standard to every brand of pistol. My reasoning is that some brands and models come with a more established track record for duty carry among armed forces or LE agencies. In these cases a few hundred rounds may convince me I did not get a lemon from the factory.

On the other hand, if a pistol is newer to market, has less of a track record, or is not in regular military or police use for years, I may be more suspect of its reliability and durability. In these cases I may push it harder and longer before considering it suitable for carry.

Examples, for me, would include my Gen 3 Glock 19. These have been in use for a long time. Bugs have been identified, factory changes made, and reliability established. A few hundred rounds and z few boxes of my favorite carry ammo, cycling reliably would have me consider it good to go for carry.

My Beretta Px4 Compact is not in wide use among the military or law enforcement. I also encountered feed problems on my first outing. The feed issue was identified and corrected (burr on the extractor preventing smooth feeding.). This all gave me pause though and I ran over 1,000 flawless feeding rounds, including several brands of defensive ammo, before putting it in the holster and carrying it.

My TP9V2 is in narrower use, from a lesser known company. I’m making it run 2,000 rounds without any cleaning, before I consider it reliable enough to carry.

What do you guys do before considering a pistol good enough to bet your life on? Same standard for every pistol? Different thread holds for different platforms? Curious to know.

(My carry pistols, do get cleaned and lubed after each range session, and also after periods of carry without being fired, in order to keep them ready to perform their best. Just so folks don’t think I gamble with trying to test the limits of pistol reliability at the same time I would be relying on that pistol to help me in a worst case scenario.)
#24
Original post by madduner on the old Canik Fanatik Forum

I kind of play it by ear.
If I put 400-500 rounds though one and it never misses a beat, I'll then run a couple of boxes of whatever defensive ammo I plan on running through it. If it remains flawless - it then is considered for rotation into my carry needs.

I have been fortunate that none of my weapons have had issues.

I think my Springfield XD-E got into carry rotation after just a couple of trips to the range because it packaged nearly as well as my little Sig, but has a much better trigger. I greatly favor DA/SA weapons when carrying concealed. For open carry, I don't mind the striker fire as much. I just don't want to hurt myself retrieving a weapon from a concealed carry position. I open carry my Caniks.
#25
Original post by tobimaru on the old Canik Fanatik Forum

I typically want 200 rounds failure free through a pistol before I consider carrying it. I'll shoot both range and defensive, 75/25.

I've actually had several pistols that had/have issues with reliability. Some of them I've fixed (M&P Bodyguard 380), others I sold (Kel-Tec PF9), and one is currently back to the manufacturer (RIA 1911 A1-CS). I give every firearm a chance, certain problems don't pose as big a headache as others. If a pistol exhibits several unrelated issues, I'll probably get rid of it.

If I have a particularly sweaty day I'll make sure to clean my carry pistol. They typically get a "full" clean/lube only after being fired. Blued firearms in particular I will keep oiled or otherwise protected as I have had bad problems with rust and the blued finish. I try to have a full sweat guard on all of my holsters to help keep moisture off the firearm.
#26
Original post by tl1000rsquid on the old Canik Fanatik Forum

My usual routine before i trust a pistol for defensive situation is 0 failures with 2-300 rounds of my good range ammo, 200ish rounds of cheap HP's($13/50 ppu) and 3 successful loads of my intended carry ammo through each mag, 4-5 if I only have 2-3 mags, I typically like to have 5 spares to vet.
#27
Original post by vmtcmt on the old Canik Fanatik Forum

Totally agree about the track record before I will carry. A box (or a match) or two through a Glock or a S&W, and I consider it GTG. I shot my SD9VE at a match out of the box with little more than a wipe down and quickie lube, and it ran perfectly. One of my G21’s has about 5K of mostly Wolf and/or Tula through it without a cleaning or a malfunction. My M&P 9 has almost as many through it, with equal reliability. I’ll carry a Glock or an S&W any time, any where.

Sorry Fanatiks, but Canik and Century are not there yet. Just look at all the threads here about broken parts, springs, failures to reset, etc., and the issues Century has had resolving them. Sorry, my TP9’s are fun guns, but until their track record improves, it’s in the range bag with something else on my hip. I only have about 800 rounds through my SA, and the trigger failed to reset once. Of course, after I bragged about it to the local range manager about how good it is, and let him try it. Ergonomics are such that I often hit the slide lock/release and it fails to LRHO. Not totally the gun’s fault, but I don’t have that issue with most other guns. I don’t want to alter my grip or have to train to a specific gun.

Just to show I will give anything a chance, I recently bought a Remington RP9. Under $250, brand new, after rebate, including shipping and FFL fees. Just look around YooToob for two minutes, and you’ll find a pile of bad reviews, and a spattering of good ones. I’ll let you know, but even if it gives me no grief, there is no way I would carry it, or rely on it for HD. The same can be said for my RIA 1911. Broke an ejector on me during a match at about 600 rounds through it. Sent me a new one free, which is great, but it’s a range toy. My Colt and my Ruger 1911’s have never malfunctioned. Granted, I clean them about every 500-1000 rounds, just because from what I’ve seen, the design, as good as it is, is not as tolerant to getting dirty as a modern plastic fantastic. I don’t carry a 1911 just because of their limited capacity.
#28
Personally i don't count on brand names as a pass. I mean take the sig p320 recalled after being adopted by military and leo. Every manufacturer can have problems, every model can have a Monday or Friday gun that gets out with a problem. Seen it happen before. I also try to use the cheapest crappiest ammo i can when I first take it to the range. If it wont cycle crappy ammo reliably it gives me something to look at. Then i can move up good ammo. Do I see the same failures, can I identify why it failed with cheap ammo but functions with good ammo? If I cant answer any questions like this this that come up during range time then its a no go for carry, even if it shoot premium ammo just fine. Now with that stated right now i carry a Beretta 92fs or 92A1 and both will eat anything I feed them. So far my Elite has acted the same way, i think I have had like three issues and got my questions on why they happened answered and trust the firearm. I look at it this way, if it cant shoot cheap range ammo right and something happens on the way home from the range and all i have is range ammo then not worth carrying. To me i got no room for range guns only. Everything has a purpose and it must be reliable, every time.
#29
Original post by DWARREN123 on the old Canik Fanatik Forum

Reliability, accuracy and 200 to 500 rounds of different type of ammo plus at least 100 rounds of my SD ammo.
#30
Original post by tl1000rsquid on the old Canik Fanatik Forum
Nov 20, 2017 at 10:13am ghostwolf308 said:
Personally i dont count on brand names as a pass. I mean take the sig p320 recalled after being adopted by military and leo. Every manufacturer can have problems, every model can have a Monday or Friday gun that gets out with a problem. Seen it happen before.
This absolutely, I would expect something like a Glock to perform well straight out of the box, but you never know if some part may have a manufacturing defect, friend bought a new glock and had the extractor break with in the first 2 box's of ammo through it. I had rear sight come apart on new S&W first range trip.

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